An Interesting Conversation: Doritos Contest

Doc Bernard

Doc Bernard

Indie Arms Member
Last night I went to a group that has just formed here in So Cal, for Independent Film-makers. Think of it as a "coffee-group", for lack of a better description.

But the subject of the Doritos Commercial came up. And how this was a brilliant move by Frito-Lay, Inc. to have their advertising ideas for the next 50 years covered.

What kind of "releases" did you guys have to sign to submit your spec project? I am thinking it had a clause that said the footage is now their property and that you give up all claims on it.

Don't get me wrong, I bet many of you had fun doing it, and somewhere someone is going to win. So, I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade.

But look at it from the company's stand point, everyone that submitted just saved them way more than the prize money. They just got a huge influx of new creative ideas that they won't have to pay a dime for in the future. Of course they might not use your actual footage, but they can use (read: take) the idea/premise, as you gave it away for free or worse, paid money out of pocket to give them the idea.

Just a thought to consider the next time you see one of these types of contests. Sure we all do "free work" especially when building up a res/reel. But you receive tangible compensation for it, i.e., footage, letter of rec, experience, entry on your resume, etc. But for these kinds of contests, you give up any claim on your hard work, especially if they use your idea sometime/anytime in the future. That means, it's not on your resume (anyone who checks will be told "no, he/she was not attached to the project in any way" meaning now you lied on your resume), it's not in your reel (legitimately), and you cannot tell a potential client "Yeah, they used my idea in their commercial". Nope, its their idea because "you give up all claims".
 
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You're thinking as a filmmaker, not a modern marketer. The commercial is the least of it. And I'd expect that including that in the reel is allowed, no one would know anyway if it's just sent to clients.

But to the point, it's about relationship marketing and the new world of interactive media. By doing this they didn't create free advertisements; they created a word of mouth campaign. People talk to their friends about the project they're working on, they get their friends to help, the idea of the contest gets passed on to the next player and so forth. The fact that this company has such a promotion creates an image of a modern, in touch with the world organization that wants to have fun with their advertising. Very inexpensive with a lot of reach in way that cuts through the noise, the phrase every marketing professional is using right now.

Do they get a free campaign? Not really, since no executive of a successful company would sign off on something because they found one commercial entertaining. I don't know anything about the contest, but I'm going to guess that target data, delivery options and brand message isn't required in an included marketing plan. So their regular department isn't marginalized by this at all. They came up with the idea for a totally different reason. Any push they get from the commercial itself, or the commercials themselves, is a bonus to the larger strategy.

I will add that this isn't always the case, and there's always a chance that some brilliant person out there really will give them the spark for a new campaign. My only point is that it's not their point. And it's not like Frito-Lay would have bought it from that person otherwise.
 
Doc Bernard said:
they can use (read: take) the idea/premise, as you gave it away for free or worse, paid money out of pocket to give them the idea.
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The intro on the contest site says, "$5 million up for grabs". The truth is that most of that money is tied to incentives. That is, the spot has to land in the top of the USA ad meter in order to pay out additional money. To win the big money in addition to beating all other contest entries - you must also beat all the ads that run during the SuperBowl. That's a tall order.

The non-incentive money available to the contestants is $150,000 - the top 6 finalists receive $25,000 each.

Let's do some math:
$150,000 divided by 3923 contestant entries = $38 per submission.

Each entry or in other words, creative treatment, is worth $38. Granted, $38 is way too much for many of the awful videos that were submitted. But there are some gems in there. Well done creative projects that clearly took a great deal of time and effort to execute. Regardless if the spot took 5 minutes or 5 days to execute the amount of money that Dorritos paid for the work is $38.

I'm no fan of these contests. They undermine our industry and devalue creativity.
 
Guys I agree with you on most part, but to make a super bowl half time spot, that alone is worth it for me and my business. Yes the money would be awesome, but I'm really wanting both.

We put one days work into them, and that's it. The way I look at is yes Doritos put together one of the biggest marketing campaigns and have commercial material for probably the next 20 years, but remember half of those entries are shot with iphones and edited with iphones, they'll be disqualified right off the bat.

Another good portion were shot with logos like coors light, mcdonalds, chick filet, etc.. signs/posters in the background and say the word super bowl thru out the spot. Last almost half are just really bad and have no story line or any production quality. I honestly can say there are about 500 - 800 that will be good enough to be in the top 6. BTW the submissions are at 5400 right now, not on the website yet.


When it rains it pours, check this out


http://www.bizreport.com/2007/03/doritos_ad_campaign_draws_millions.html
 
twocik23 said:
I honestly can say there are about 500 - 800 that will be good enough to be in the top 6. BTW the submissions are at 5400 right now, not on the website yet.


When it rains it pours, check this out
Click to expand...

Wow. 500-800 that are good enough to be in the top six (6) aka ON TELEVISION?

I got an entirely different number: Six or Seven total that were good enough to be considered for the top six. The rest were completely horrid. My vote is for the entry titled "DAVE".

So far, it's the only one that SMACKS of post SuperBowl water cooler chat.
 
"Wow. 500-800 that are good enough to be in the top six (6) aka ON TELEVISION?"


No just to be viewed for the finalist set. I've seen over 200 that are acceptable. I was just stating that most look like they're made with really poor gear (camera & audio), didn't follow the rules, etc.. and wouldn't even make it to the big seat.



Is this the one ?


http://www.crashthesuperbowl.com/#/video/1738



.
 
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LOL, no, not you guys. Once or twice a month (starting this month), a group of Indie Film makers get together for a coffee/social to mingle and get to know other film makers. Basically a way to interact and maybe develop professional working relationships. Indie-Arms may just have gotten a feature (paid) starting early next year because of it.

I found it extremely helpful and insightful. Some of the people there were fairly known in the So Cal Indie circuit. There was a fountain of knowledge and experience there that night.

It all stemmed from the CL crap we all see every day. "Need Red package..........but for free", "Paid DP gig.........$25 and pizza", etc. And all the dishonest people out there trying to take advantage of others for their own gain. Again, not trying to go on a rant, but we need to put a value on our services and the services of others. There is a need to do free work, that is how most of us get real world experience. But when you ask these same experienced individuals to continue to work for free, be extremely honest and up front with it. And try to have a bit of reality in your posting. Don't tell me, "This one is destined for Sundance/Cannes/Immediate distribution" when in reality it's not.

The one thing of CL' ers I ask, is be honest. Tell me what you need and what is the benefit to me, if I am not getting paid. But do it honestly. I am so Indie-minded and understanding of what we face. Don't try to blow smoke up my posterior, I see right through it.

Take Clarkage for example, I am working on one of his projects right now. He told me exactly what was going on. I liked the idea, on a couple of levels. That is the honesty I am looking for when someone asks me to help out on a project. I make decent money with the rental business and my day job, and I can afford to take on a few freebie projects, but they have to interest me. That is my "pay" on those. New experience and a feeling of satisfaction. Selfish? No.

Basically, what it boils down to, we are worth what we put into our craft. Don't sell yourself cheaper than you are worth. And if someone gives you the benefit of their experience for free or at a discount, show real appreciation. (Not aimed at Clarkage, LOL. Then again, a dressing trailer would of been nice, maybe a limo......)

But this Doritos thing drew way too many parallels that we see on CL these days for me.

And Cassius, you are absolutely right. I am thinking as a film-maker. Because......well, I am a film-maker, as are most of the people here. I do put a price on my hard work. And if someone else is going to profit "big" for my work, I deserve my fair share of it. Yeah, their marketing team struck gold with this contest. I mean, how many here on this thread alone have clicked in to see the finalists? You are their demographic and they drew you in to their product, like moths to a flame. How many people are, by degrees of separation, are associated with someone who submitted or is remotely interested in the contest? Tens of thousands of people. So, yes, Frito Lay marketing did well and has gotten free advertising and may have made major money on this contest alone. But that is not my concern, that they did well. My concern is at what price did they do well? Will they take advantage of those people that submitted and "borrow ideas"? More than likely, yes. They asked for and received free advertising from every submission, which, well, lined their pockets. And people gave willingly.

And BTW, who actually picks the finalists and the actual winner?

Twocik23: I was not trying to make you feel bad for what you did, not at all. I just think Doritos does have an ulterior motive here and just wanted people to have an opportunity to see things from a different perspective.

Someone who downloaded the rules and forms from them, PLEASE post! I could be very wrong here. Let me read the "fine print".

And damn, if you win, think of the bragging rights you will have!

If you are in So Cal, and would like to get involved in our "coffee clatch" let me know, and I will forward info along.
 
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"t all stemmed from the CL crap we all see every day. "Need Red package..........but for free", "Paid DP gig.........$25 and pizza", etc. And all the dishonest people out there trying to take advantage of others for their own gain. "




I agree 100% man, I can't stand seeing those ads !!!! Or even better, we're looking for a crew to shoot a major film, but in return you get reel work. Ha yea we spent all of that money and time to learn this stuff to do production for free and watch you sit back and take all of the credit AND sometimes get rich off of it. NEXT

College kids do it for reel work, but they really should charge something. Alot of companies will always expect things for free in our industry or at the price they want to pay for it. Hey college wasn't free, why should I give my skills for free.








"Twocik23: I was not trying to make you feel bad for what you did, not at all. I just think Doritos does have an ulterior motive here and just wanted people to have an opportunity to see things from a different perspective.

Someone who downloaded the rules and forms from them, PLEASE post! I could be very wrong here. Let me read the "fine print".

And damn, if you win, think of the bragging rights you will have!"



Ha no big deal bro, I understood what you meant, we were thinking the samething. Me and my crew had the same discussion two days before we shot them. I wondered if the Herbert brothers story was even real or just a way for them to bring guys of our caliber to the home plate..... ? You know getting a real bang for their buck, or should I say free..


Has anyone here know of any winners at all ($25,000, 1 mill, etc..) from the pervious years ?






Anyway I hope the comp is real and yes the bragging rights would be pretty cool ! Tell you the truth I'm really in it for the art, I love everything about making films... Not sure about you guys, but when every I see really cool natural lighting my brain starts to go 1000 mph.




.
 
Sorry people:

BY ENTERING THIS CONTEST AND UPLOADING YOUR SUBMISSION, YOU IRREVOCABLY GRANT TO SPONSOR AND ITS AGENTS THE UNCONDITIONAL AND PERPETUAL RIGHT TO POST, DISPLAY, PUBLISH, USE, ADAPT, EDIT AND/OR MODIFY SUCH SUBMISSION IN ANY WAY, IN ANY AND ALL MEDIA, FOR ANY PURPOSE, WITHOUT LIMITATION, AND WITHOUT CONSIDERATION TO YOU. FINALISTS AGREE TO IRREVOCABLY ASSIGN AND TRANSFER TO THE SPONSOR ANY AND ALL RIGHTS, TITLE AND INTEREST IN SUBMISSION, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, ALL COPYRIGHTS AND WAIVE ALL MORAL RIGHTS IN SUBMISSION. ALL CONTEST ENTRANTS FURTHER AGREE TO RELEASE AND INDEMNIFY AND HOLD HARMLESS THE NFL ENTITIES (AS DEFINED BELOW), SPONSOR AND THE CONTEST PARTIES FROM ANY AND ALL CLAIMS THAT ANY COMMERCIAL, ADVERTISING, PRESENTATION, WEB CONTENT OR ANY OTHER MATERIAL SUBSEQUENTLY PRODUCED, PRESENTED, AND/OR PREPARED BY OR ON BEHALF OF SPONSOR INFRINGES ON THE RIGHTS OF ENTRANT'S WORK AS CONTAINED IN ANY SUBMISSION.

People gave the farm away. Yeah, the NFL can use your (I mean Doritos) stuff too, including the idea. They covered all the bases. They can change it and use it until the end of time in any media however they want, with no credit to you. I am going to keep a copy of this, if I ever hold a contest for film ideas.

Ouch.
 
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Yeah, I entered and gave away my idea and my rights, but WHO CARES?
Is it the last 'great' idea that I'll have? NO.
It was my first commercial and just like entering the DVX fests, (which BTW, you are granting dvxuser just about the same rights to use your film however they please) it was a HUGE learning experience. I thought 6 minutes was short.. 30 sec is even shorter-er-er. Much.

I know many many entrants honestly believe that their home-movie 'look at my cute kids' commercial will make the superbowl and win millions. Gotta dream, right?

If you look at it from a business standpoint, you could make an awesome commercial for $5-10k and have a good chance at winning 25k, and then a mil. It was done last year by some nobodys that made a spot for 2k and won a million. To me, that's worth giving away your idea if you really think you can compete. Initially, I thought we might have a chance, but I woke up from that delusion pretty quick.

Here's the best one I've seen so far-

http://www.crashthesuperbowl.com/#/video/3000



and if you want to see what I did--

http://www.crashthesuperbowl.com/#/video/5219


I think the WORST part about the doritos contest is that I now have $60 worth of chips that I don't want to eat, but can't bear to toss... Save em for next year, I guess.
 
I am glad you enjoyed doing it.

You are doing exactly what I am talking about on this thread. Advertising for Doritos by plugging yours and someone else's entry. For free. Oops, my bad, no, you are plugging the property of Doritos. You are promoting material that is not yours, might as well post up a clip from Star Wars, the legalities are the same.

Please keep it to the business model and the discussion of it. Not promoting more of their advertising.

If you look at it from a business standpoint, you could make an awesome commercial for $5-10k and have a good chance at winning 25k, and then a mil. It was done last year by some nobodys that made a spot for 2k and won a million. To me, that's worth giving away your idea if you really think you can compete. Initially, I thought we might have a chance, but I woke up from that delusion pretty quick.
Click to expand...

From a business standpoint, you are advocating spending 5-10K out of pocket on a non-paying job (except for the "winners"), and not being able to use it on your or anyone else's reel? What is the real upside (not the chance of winning something, but the business motivation)? A business is to make money, right? And if they do spend/lose money on a project there has to be a real tangible return for it. Future work, building up the reel, etc.

The company that you went on spec for can use your product, or re-edit it, reshoot it, recast it, and tell you to buzz off, without paying you. What would you do if another/any client told you that? And I do smell a "compilation commercial" coming. Some of the submissions will be on TV/Internet on a commercial for them, even if they didn't win. And you will have no chance of credit for that work, no payment, if your is one of them.

If I had a client that requested a spec project from me and gave these stipulation:
1. There is a chance the project could be aired
2. Every other film-maker person/with a camera was being approached to do a spec to compete against me
3. The final product I hand over, whether they use it or not, is theirs,
4. I have to hand the product over before getting paid
5. Even if they don't use this time around, they could use it later, again without paying or acknowledging my work
6. They can give it to others for their use with the same rules as 5.
7. I have no recourse in how the final product/idea is used (this means they could make a commercial that says "Look at the world's Worst commercials ideas/filming. Laugh with us at them!....)
8. And the client is a multibillion dollar company.
9. I have to spend my money to make their commercial

I would politely tell them "Thank you, but no." And as soon as they left, I would be rolling on the floor laughing. Then feel sorry for the poor individuals that were fooled by it just because of the client's name. My business model does not have room for, well, throwing money away.
 
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You're right, I am giving them free advertising, and gave them money to do it. In this instance, HOW ELSE would I show my work for critiques? I give free advertising to many companies, big and small. It happens. SO?

I should make the disclaimer that I think doritos are awful and anyone who falls for their advertising and eats the toxic MSG-laden fried thing they call a snack needs a head check.

I was slightly morally conflicted about doing it in the first place, because if it's a good ad, more people will buy the chips, and they will get fat and blame me! But that's the problem with 99% of ads pushing you to buy things you shouldn't, so I said wtf, might as well take a shot at winning the mil. Let people make their own decisions.
 
Tim Joy said:
You're right, I am giving them free advertising, and gave them money to do it. In this instance, HOW ELSE would I show my work for critiques? I give free advertising to many companies, big and small. It happens. SO?
Click to expand...

In this instance, according to the rules, you cannot use this for critique, nor for your reel. It is not yours anymore.

Now doing work for other companies is different, they hired you, right, and that is footage you CAN use for your reel. Unless the client had that nasty disclaimer put into the contract as well. It all about the tangible results.

That footage you did for other companies, I would be interested in seeing.

Like I said before, if you did this strictly for fun, hey, cool. But if you did it as a business, it sets a bad precedent in the industry. It's called "breaking down conditions". What if every advertiser out there sees the success Frito Lay had with this and started using that model to advertise? Do you see the slippery slope I see? Advertising budgets would be put on the shoulders of those that used to get paid to film, now the filmers have to pay for everything in advance and get nothing in return. It's a paradigm shift, and not a good one.
 
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Doc Bernard said:
From a business standpoint, you are advocating spending 5-10K out of pocket on a non-paying job (except for the "winners"), and not being able to use it on your or anyone else's reel? What is the real upside (not the chance of winning something, but the business motivation)? A business is to make money, right? And if they do spend/lose money on a project there has to be a real tangible return for it. Future work, building up the reel, etc.

The company that you went on spec for can use your product, or re-edit it, reshoot it, recast it, and tell you to buzz off, without paying you. What would you do if another/any client told you that? And I do smell a "compilation commercial" coming. Some of the submissions will be on TV/Internet on a commercial for them, even if they didn't win. And you will have no chance of credit for that work, no payment, if your is one of them.

Even as a business, you have set a precedent that can be used in court against you should a client ever sue or you sue a client. "Your Honor, this company has done this before, they gave product away to a client, with no expectation of return. It is no different here. That is what my client was led to believe."
Click to expand...

Of course you can use it on your reel. Why not? If they use a clip from your spot, you can still TAKE credit for it on your resume or whatever. They just won't give you credit, or money. I'd love to see a clip of my ad on TV.

You can even use it for another commercial, but you also grant the same rights to them.
The only differences, as I read it, are with the finalists, which hand over all copyrights- seems pretty reasonable to me if they're getting 25k, no?

Do you think they can keep tabs on 5000 entrants anyway? Not to mention the fact that they could probably care less about the lame spots most people made.

Sure, they can use your idea and remake the ad without paying you. That would feel sh!ttty to be on the receiving end of, but YOU SHOULD'VE MADE A BETTER AD and won the 25k in the first place.

This is a give and take situation. I understood the deal before going into it, so it's all good with me.
 
Doc Bernard said:
If I had a client that requested a spec project from me and gave these stipulation:
1. There is a chance the project could be aired
2. Every other film-maker person/with a camera was being approached to do a spec to compete against me
3. The final product I hand over, whether they use it or not, is theirs,
4. I have to hand the product over before getting paid
5. Even if they don't use this time around, they could use it later, again without paying or acknowledging my work
6. They can give it to others for their use with the same rules as 5.
7. I have no recourse in how the final product/idea is used (this means they could make a commercial that says "Look at the world's Worst commercials ideas/filming. Laugh with us at them!....)
8. And the client is a multibillion dollar company.
9. I have to spend my money to make their commercial

I would politely tell them "Thank you, but no." And as soon as they left, I would be rolling on the floor laughing. Then feel sorry for the poor individuals that were fooled by it just because of the client's name. My business model does not have room for, well, throwing money away.
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Yes, BUT-- If you can make that winning commercial, win the 25k paycheck and get aired during the superbowl (or even just make the finalsits), I think your business would be booming with new clients and you would be booked solid for a long time. it's a crap shoot, for sure, but big rewards... big risk.
 
I had a buddy of mine come up to me with our script idea. At first I wasn't interested, but the more I thought about it, the more I figured it would be fun. We spent about $12 for 3 bags of Doritos...that's it. In the end it turned out great and will be something I'm happy to show clients.

For me it was a challenge to produce it to what I thought would be "broadcast quality" without spending anything out of pocket. I think we were successful.

Here's our entry: http://creativeedgepro.com/archives/283
 
Please keep it to the business model and the discussion of it. Not promoting more of their advertising.
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Uh, I appreciate you are proud of what you did. But there is another thread for showing your entry. That is why I started this thread, 1. to discuss the business aspect/ramification of what Frito Lay has done, and 2. not to derail that thread or put discouragement into those that did submit and show there stuff there.
 
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For me this was a no brainer. I am an amateur. I did not spend anything other than buying a few bags of chips and a 6 pack. Upside is all there is! There only a few production houses that are called on to make a Superbowl spot. I am not one of them.
I figure, give up one of the many good ideas,( no ,strike that...GREAT ideas. hehe ) I have, take a shot. For this particular contest, with these potentional rewards, There was no way I would not do this.
Now if only my technical skills matched my creative genius....
 
dsto said:
For me this was a no brainer. I am an amateur. I did not spend anything other than buying a few bags of chips and a 6 pack. Upside is all there is! There only a few production houses that are called on to make a Superbowl spot. I am not one of them.
I figure, give up one of the many good ideas,( no ,strike that...GREAT ideas. hehe ) I have, take a shot. For this particular contest, with these potentional rewards, There was no way I would not do this.
Now if only my technical skills matched my creative genius....
Click to expand...

Now this is the best reason I have heard. Your reasoning for doing it is exactly what the contest should of really been about. This is the kind of honesty I spoke about earlier.

But those saying "we did it as a "business venture"or "my company paid this to film for this" says a lot, and Frito Lay was counting on people to go big with production values, so they could profit from it with no cost to them. Next time, maybe an equipment cap on the contest. Must be shot with a HandyCam and natural lighting. This way, the playing field is leveled, on an equipment basis. That will give people a chance. People that brought 25-50K worth of gear blew the opportunity/curve for those that don't have that kind of gear.
 
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