F5: Amira prices out today,

Yes, the old-timers... I used to make as much on my gear as I did on my rate, what with every lens and accessory being billed, and the tax advantages were (and still are) significant. Ironic reading the complaints on the AVID board about the outrageous price, about $1K, for an AVID system when I paid $83K for the first AVR77 system, the first broadcast quality AVID, which was compressed about a decade ago. Varicam was $63K for the body only, Aatons more than that plus mags, etc. Camera prices seem more than reasonable now, although, as pointed out, for some reason all but the Amira require extensive accessorizing to become useful. The biggest problem is getting paid for your gear, and while it's hard enough to get your rate for the camera, you will never recover all the data cards, noga arms, widgets, brackets, finders, and cables that end up costing more than the camera. I continue to get pressure in bidding to meet other companies' gear prices, which many people seem to give away to get a job. Only high end commercials pay the full and reasonable rate, but you still never get back all the extras brought, often for insurance, like backup drives, etc. I'd feel better about all this if camera lifespan was longer and the client awareness of camera models less. I have lost work because of my F3, which has nothing to do with the wonderful pictures it makes, and it is and was a bargain. Just mentioning it positions you as not being technologically up to date. I'll be moving up to a 4K camera as much out of market necessity as anything - I still haven't heard of a single client who has used the 4K res for anything beyond HD and archiving on LTO (and likely not paid for), and I suspect the complexity of the new Sony F's has resulted in much poor imagery during the learning curve. Arri has made their cameras much easier to use, both in form and function, and while the Amira may not be theoretically as capable image-wise as a 55, I'll bet Amira owners will make good pictures with the camera on the first job. Good for Arri - I still miss my BL IV and even my IIC (look it up on Wikipedia if you're under 50).
 
I talked to Ablecine today and with all the accessories that Arri offers it will be close to $60K for a package out the door. Not including batteries or a case haha. Now you can go other routes for many of those accessories elsewhere but there I'm imagining it will be $50-60K people will be paying once that camera arrives at your doorstep.

Yes by and far this is a camera you will HAVE to make sure you can get your clients to pay you back for. I would charge no less then $1000 for the camera a day if it were me going out with it. Not with me and I might charge more... I don't know.
 
I understand some people's philosophy of renting cams instead of owning, but I'm on the opposite end of that. I do not rent. With most clients, my day rate with gear is about three times a labor only rate. You don't have to be a genius to figure out where the real money is: In the gear. While I doubt I will buy an Amira, if my main client(100+ days a year) wanted me to shoot on it, I'd be on the list in a heartbeat. When they asked me to buy my first tape VariCam, I think I had it in less than two weeks. And it payed for itself several times over the first year. Maybe I'm just used to being a network freelancer for my entire career and buying and owning my own camera and gear package. I guess I subscribe to the "It takes money to make money" philosophy. But if you can't recoup the cost and make money, it's pointless.

But on to the Amira… It's on the right track, but not quite there. I don't think it's something I would invest in(unless I have a guaranteed deal) right now, even though I WANT A S35 cam in an ENG style body. I just think at this point, and especially with a camera like that, it needs to be able to do 4K. I've said that to me, the perfect camera would be my Panny 2700 with a S35 sensor and swappable mounts(PL, EF, B4) like the Amira or F5/55.
 
A few points.

Firstly I don't think it is a proper doco camera - I guess it is too heavy, it doesn't seem to have a method of acquiring focus, and I doubt one could adjust the volume while operating on the shoulder.

Of course arris idea of a doco is doing a corporate with a large crew and jib in a brandy factory - so it depends on the concept of doco.

As for the price - any price is fair - If it doesnt fit ones business model, walk away.

But I think the cost could present a business risk.

Coming from stills I see that the $3k nikon (30mp) D800 may have left the amount of clients prepared to fund $40k 50mp digibacks shrinking hugely - one does not want to buy into an expensive tech with a diminishing market.

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Maybe or not relevant to this thread but Ive just been working at the AV show in amsterdam. Seriously there are some massive monitors knocking about and 4k is, well, kind of what you need to fill them.

Not really narative/doco/broadcast but store/digital billboard advertising and the like 4k is definitely gonna be mainstream soon.



S
 
morgan_moore said:
A few points.

Firstly I don't think it is a proper doco camera - I guess it is too heavy, it doesn't seem to have a method of acquiring focus, and I doubt one could adjust the volume while operating on the shoulder.

S
Click to expand...

Are you talking about autofocus? Like with a mirror less or compact?
As far back as I can remember this has been a manual focus / zone focus affair.
 
Manual focus lenses have been the norm for as long as I've been shooting, and that's a long time. Auto focus is from the DSLR realm, and on consumer cameras. Recently, prosumer cameras have auto focus. There are even auto focus 2/3" lenses now.
But if you can't manually focus a video camera, you should learn. It's the norm in broadcast and film production.
 
Im not talking af I'm talking pixel to pixel monitoring available to the op without destabilising a handheld shot.

I've been around cameras for years. I think the concept of trying to manually focus s35 lenses at 2.0 is basically new - ie post 5d

Motion (video/film) has in the main been on smaller formats 2/3 or s16 for doco/live or marked and pulled with s35 narrative

I'm sure a few whackos shot s35 doco solo but I've never seen it happening.

And of course most doco has been Sd till a few years ago.

Sharp Hd or 4k changes the game for focus.

At minimum one needs a 720 monitor and 1:1 zoom in on a lamc control to have a chance of pulling focus solo.

I don't see how the Amera has addressed the dirty secret of s35 doco - blown focus.

S35 really only comes into its own at wide apertures because stopped down you get the same look as a 2/3 cam - which are much more fit to purpose with doco shooting with those lovely super zooms.

Using the f55 with an s16 lens seems a far more attractive high end doco solution than the Amera

Btw I've never shot any video with af apart from a few 'special' shots - I use af on my steadicam sometimes and once at a moto cross race with a tele on my fs100.
 
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morgan_moore said:
Im not talking af I'm talking pixel to pixel monitoring available to the op without destabilising a handheld shot.


Sharp Hd or 4k changes the game for focus.

At minimum one needs a 720 monitor and 1:1 zoom in on a lamc control to have a chance of pulling focus solo.

I don't see how the Amera has addressed the dirty secret of s35 doco - blown focus.
Click to expand...

That's what the Odyssey 7 is for ; )
 
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