Amira owners (or those who've used)

M

matg

Member
Anyone out there own a Red camera before making the switch to an Amira willing to share what they love or hate about the Amira and if they miss anything about shooting with the Red?

I'm still pondering what to do with my Epic Dragon and my 2015 $'s.

- Upgrade to Weapon ($17k)
- Buy an Amira ($40-55k, and keep the Dragon)
- Buy an Alexa Mini ($60k+ and sell the Dragon)
 
I loved the Amira. Gorgeous images. Quick and simple to use. Built in NDs. It's a camera that you don't need to learn, it just works and lets you focus on filmmaking.
If there's one thing I didn't love was the quality of the LCD, but hey, that EVF+LCD combo is pretty handy!
 
macgregor said:
I loved the Amira. Gorgeous images. Quick and simple to use. Built in NDs. It's a camera that you don't need to learn, it just works and lets you focus on filmmaking.
If there's one thing I didn't love was the quality of the LCD, but hey, that EVF+LCD combo is pretty handy!
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Very good point on the "focus on filmmaking" hence my hesitance on the Alexa Mini. I saw it in person at AbelCine in NYC and it's very much like the Red approach but even more kludgey with the modularity. I'm sure it's superb for the Drone/Gimbal/Jib purpose, but lacks the physical space for using as a studio camera and lacks the ability "pick up and just shoot".

Before I make a final decision, I might be better off and just wait for the Mini's to work their way into the market and see how everyone reacts to it and ultimately the demand for it.
 
I've worked on both Dragon and Amira, I agree that the Amira is much more simple to use, it really feels like an evolution of the old Arri SR3 super16 camera, it's a true 'pick up and shoot' camera.

The VF isn't the best and I experienced some ghosting with the one I used.

I feel Dragon is still more of a Cinema Camera than Amira, and it's being used daily to shoot big budget films and TV which is a good selling point when you rent it.

The Strong point with the RED are:

- Resolution, this could come handy when you like a 4K finish but also like to have the option to crop/recompose the image in post.
- Modularity, you could configure the RED for different style of work depending on the project, you could set it up as a studio camera with 19mm rods etc, or go light weight with 15mm, you could also strip it down completely as I did a few times shooting on trains or public spaces, connecting a battery placed in a bag with a long cable.
- Weight, because of it's light weight, it's easier to rig.

If I were in your position, I first ask myself what market I'm aiming for? Cinema? TV? commercials? Documentries? I'd also ask myself, which camera is 'hot' at the moment in my area to use, and who are my main customers? Low budget features? well budgeted TV? and what kind of camera they usually use? and also of course, which new customers I might want to attract.

As for the Weapon upgrade, most of my owners friends from rental houses are skipping it, and I'll advise you to do the same, better off to put your money in lenses, lenses will stays with you much longer, and sometimes when you're on a shoot which requires a different camera you could always rent them out or offer them as a bonus, if you already have a good set of lenses, I'll probably consider getting a Scarlet Dragon a second body for shoots. it makes productions very happy to know you can support them if anything fails.

Just my 2c.
 
Amira or alexa mini all day- if I had to pick one it would probably be the amira for how comfortable it is to shoot with.

Edit: Sell the Dragon anyway ; )
 
Hunter Hampton said:
Amira or alexa mini all day- if I had to pick one it would probably be the amira for how comfortable it is to shoot with.

Edit: Sell the Dragon anyway ; )
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Thanks for input guys! I think I'm going to roll the dice and put the deposit down on the Alexa Mini w. Abelcine and get my Dragon sold.

I'm coming from the "stills" advertising world and fortunate to get opportunities in video and I just want to shoot, be creative, and tell stories whether as a director (on big gigs) or DP (on small gigs).

Alexa Mini Benefits (IMO)
- Can't go wrong with anything "Alexa", you can just feel the excitement producers, DP's, AC's have for this camera and it's not even out yet!
- ProRes 4x4 will satisfy most production needs. ArriRaw available in the box in case it's needed.
- Resolution does not matter. Desired lens sharpness and characteristics make the difference.
- Color science reigns supreme with image quality. I'm shocked at how digital/unpleasing the Red Color science is out of the box. Too much time and work in post getting colors to feel organic.
- If a producer/agency is presented with Dragon or Alexa, Alexa is going to twin 9.9999999 out of 10 times.
- Yes, the Alexa looks kludgey right now with it's accessory options, but you know the after market (WC) will create some awesome rigs to streamline the buildout options
- I can't wait to rid myself of the RedRocketX/thunderbolt box I have to lug around between NY and LA. It's a bit ridiculous I have to haul a F#$@!'n suitcase just so I can edit Red footage on my MBPro.
- Transcoding through RedCineX and RedRocket is a ridiculous additional step in workflow just so I can hand off footage for down the pipeline work.
- Alexa Mini will make a great B-Cam or backup cam on larger jobs with proper budgets. As an A-Cam on Stills/Motion jobs with fast turn-around times, the ProRes workflow will be amazing! In some instances, I',ll just Rec709 the LogC and call it a day and the image will still be amazing.
- I am tired of having to rely on Reduser to get product information from Red. You miss a critical week on the message board and could be left hanging.
- I noticed folks never actively use Arri's tech forum, because everyone is probally out shooting and getting on with their creative lives, and not on a tech board troubleshooting sh%$t all the time or justifying the Red ecosystem and it's specs.
- I just want a video camera system that is easy to use, flexible in buildout, PRODUCES AN AMAZING colors by default. Amazing to magical happens in edit/post.
- In the end as primarily a stills shooter, It's eye opening to see how drastic the nuances in video camera sensor systems and lens manufacturer choice impacts the feel of a moving image. With stills, whether you shoot PhaseOne, Hassy, Canon, Nikon, etc they all produce amazing colors/images. The parity in stills cameras has made what you shoot on a mute point in the industry. They all produce amazing pictures and have same workflow.

Ultimately I 'm going with Alexa for its color science and workflow. It took me 8 months with the Dragon to realize this. It's been a hard time trying to get Dragon on shoots. Nobody wanted it or the workflow hassle.

I'm probably in a small percentile of stills/motion shooters, so hope my little rant can help someone else.
 
Only note of caution on the mini is just how popular it will be ? The more that are sold the more likely hood of downward pressure on rental rates. Of course if you buy to use as an owner these sums don't come into play ....except @ resale time.
 
I own an Amira now, and had an F55 before that, an F3, and a Red One.

The Amira is by far my favorite.

I'm doing 2 camera Dragon/stage job all this next week. I don't hate the Dragon, it's just a little rough around the edges (IMO) and I don't love how complicated Red has become over the years. Black shades for offspeed, the multiple OLPFs to cover what smells like engineering issues, etc. Don't hate it, just not as easy as it should be.

Also like the Arri image better.

BTW, Arri holds value better in both rental and resale market. Producers know it's expensive, and the decent ones know you need to be compensated for it.
 
bill totolo said:
Any concerns over resale value and rental fees if ARRI drops a 6K sensor into the SXT line?
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Not really. The higher end clients/production companies (that I've dealt with) only go out of their way for 4K+ resolutions when the project demands it.

6K Dragon is nothing to mess with for data management. Arri ProRes 6K will be much worse. Arriraw 6K is another planet, you need a $1200/day Codex Vault and LTO and prob about 4TB/day. A theoretical 6K SXT would be a $5K to $6K/day camera package with everything you need, I'd imagine. Not really Amira territory.

Nobody is shooting 6K for real jobs unless they need it. Unless you're screwing around and trying to impress people on RedUser.

One other thing: I've come across discussion by smart people talking about how the noise levels in current sensors, with current technology is about as low as it can go. Literally they're just about to one photon lands on the photo site, one electron goes out. Almost perfect. To get a better S/N ratio for more latitude, you either need more advanced NR in the processing, or bigger photosites (i.e., bigger sensor). Supposedly this is why there has been less movement in resolution and latitude since the ALEVIII/Dragon/Weapon 8K sensors, and more talk about bigger sensors from Red, Panavision and Arri.

I really do not think a S35-sized 6K sensor is coming from Arri anytime soon, with the same or more latitude. Although I'd be thrilled to be wrong.
 
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Thanks for the response, Nate.

I had an interesting discussion with one of the new Varicam35 engineers where he stated it's down to the quality of the photons now as much as the volume (re: Panasonic's native 5000 iso).

I've done plenty of 5K shooting, even on a doc, and with a DIT wasn't much of an issue (even multi-cam with backups including LTO). But that's a good point re: the added expense of a CODEX vault. If Convergent Design can handle 4K+ ARRI RAW, this could mitigate much of this expense. Especially with the newly approved Samsung SSD's.

If ARRI releases a higher res sensor, I'm inclined to agree it will be larger than S35. Time will tell.
 
matg said:
- I noticed folks never actively use Arri's tech forum, because everyone is probally out shooting and getting on with their creative lives, and not on a tech board troubleshooting sh%$t all the time or justifying the Red ecosystem and it's specs.
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This is very true, I never had to call ARRI for any technical issues or troubleshooting for my camera. It just works. I have an Alexa for film/commercial gigs and looking to get 2 Amira's for more documentary/small crew work.
 
matg said:
Thanks for input guys! I think I'm going to roll the dice and put the deposit down on the Alexa Mini w. Abelcine and get my Dragon sold.
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I forgot to add if anyone is thinking of getting the MINI should look very closely at the WCU-4. I use it with my Alexa which is great but would be worth its weight on gold on the MINI. You can get the remote license and operate camera wirelessly (great on a drone, crane, steadicam, MOVI...etc). You can get lens data with depth of field, control FIZ, see Cinetape data and change all the setting on the camera. At least get a full demo of the unit to see what it can do.
 
We have an Amira (www.amirarent.com) with PL + EF mounts and it is constantly out, being featured on all the major productions from the likes of Henkel and Speedo and all the way to McDonalds & Co... The clients love 200fps, the ease of use and the "no need for maintenance" factor. With UHD and viewfinder upgrade it is on par with any Alexa minus the anamorphic de-squeeze and Raw capabilities. Now it is also getting more and more popular as the companion to Alexa Mini. I cannot speak highly enough about this Arri gem, be it as a B cam or as the main A unit. Highly recommended!
 
bill totolo said:
I've done plenty of 5K shooting, even on a doc, and with a DIT wasn't much of an issue (even multi-cam with backups including LTO). But that's a good point re: the added expense of a CODEX vault. If Convergent Design can handle 4K+ ARRI RAW, this could mitigate much of this expense. Especially with the newly approved Samsung SSD's.

If ARRI releases a higher res sensor, I'm inclined to agree it will be larger than S35. Time will tell.
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Red has compressed 5 and 6K raw which makes it manageable. Arriraw in all its forms is not.

I doubt very much CD will get in on Arriraw in the future, since Arriraw going forward seems to be an internal-only affair with Codex based drives, and Codex based loading systems. The exception being Alexa Mini that can do Arriraw open gate to CFast.

Arri seems determined to make raw the demarcation point between mid-level and high-end. Fine by me. Any job with budget and resources enough for an XT and need for raw, is big enough they are paying me a Really good rate and I don't want the heat if my little ol Amira goes down! :-)

They seem like they are similar level jobs, but Amira vs XT/SXT-raw are kinda far apart.
 
Comparing F3 today? It doesn't hold up. I know the price has been cut to something ridiculous, but I'd get an URSA Mini or a A7RII in a second before an F3.

The sensor was always ahead of it's time. But that's about it, and everybody else's sensors have def caught up.
 
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Just my two cents, but I don't think you should buy an Alexa Mini as your primary camera and certainly not as a marketing effort because "clients want Alexa". I think Arri designed the Alexa Mini to be a small, light (fly/gimbal) version of the main Alexa, to satisfy Alexa shooters who want that look with their more specialty shots. If a big job is booking you because of the Alexa name/look/etc. they are probably going to want the full Alexa. At least I'd imagine everyone else on your camera department would prefer it over an Alexa Mini. And in terms of budgets, I don't see the cost of an Alexa rental vs. Alexa Mini rental being a big enough difference to matter. Again, I think the existence of the Alexa Mini is primarily for those situations where a full-size Alexa can't quite fit. Not as a smaller "more affordable" Alexa for us owner+operators who don't want to spring for the big boy.


Nate Weaver said:
Red has compressed 5 and 6K raw which makes it manageable. Arriraw in all its forms is not.

I doubt very much CD will get in on Arriraw in the future, since Arriraw going forward seems to be an internal-only affair with Codex based drives, and Codex based loading systems. The exception being Alexa Mini that can do Arriraw open gate to CFast.

Arri seems determined to make raw the demarcation point between mid-level and high-end. Fine by me. Any job with budget and resources enough for an XT and need for raw, is big enough they are paying me a Really good rate and I don't want the heat if my little ol Amira goes down! :-)

They seem like they are similar level jobs, but Amira vs XT/SXT-raw are kinda far apart.
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Are you talking about a different Arri RAW than what is listed on here as a codec for the Odyssey7Q+?
https://convergent-design.com/products/odyssey-raw.html

I've never captured or worked with Arri RAW, so I genuinely don't know the details.
 
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