Americans on the board...

Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

I think you have demonstrated ignorance and stupidity, along with contempt for the freedoms of others, which is why I singled you out.[/quote]
Roadkill, of course you would think that.  You say I have contempt for the freedoms of others because I merely express an opinion contrary to the views shared by both you and Tony_H.  It’s funny how many (not all), liberals are the first to demand their freedom of speech, but in the same breath are so quick to suppress it in others that disagree with them.  The next time you accuse people of contempt for the freedoms of others, look in the mirror.

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

The fact that someone with your mindset actively attempts to force his opinions on others is why I think you are so dangerous.[/quote]
At what point did I actively force my opinion on others?  I was merely stating my opinion to a subject, something that you, Tony_H and everyone else here have also done.  It’s your delusional conspiracy theories that lead you to believe I am dangerous.

Of course, after reading enough of your posts, I know you will still consider my beliefs and principles dangerous regardless of what I write.  So, I throw the ball back into your court.  What exactly do you find dangerous about what I have said thus far?

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

Yes you are entitled to the same rights that you would deny to others. I never said that you wanted to suppress his freedoms, but now I believe that you do.[/quote]
Dude, you’re starting to sound like a broken record.  Again, when did I suggest attempting to deny other people of their rights?

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

A true patriot would never abandon his country. Would you?  Did you ever think of that?[/quote]
Patriot?  LOL.  Riiiight. ::)

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

I am sorry that you have had to watch men die, and I am sorry that you have lost friends to war. Truly. My question was neither rhetorical nor an insult. I truly want to know if you would overthrow your own government if you belived it to be the right thing to do.(I would find the decision terrifying).[/quote]
No.  I have sworn an oath to protect this country and not to overthrow it.  However, should that day ever come where I become disillusioned with my government and can no longer serve it in good conscious, then I will resign my commission and become a rich capitalist.  Until then, I serve my country proudly.

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

As far as any rights that I may or may not have earned, how could you possibly know or judge? Your statement is patently ignorant.[/quote]
Now why am I not surprised?  You comments to everyone have become filled with vitriolic hate and condescending behavior.  Nothing that you have said in all of your posts (on this thread) has demonstrated anything different in the arena of rational thought.

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

I did not imply killing, just the act of revolt. In my circles, kneejerk warmongers are not welcome.[/quote]
“Knee-jerk warmongers?”  

Sigh.

At what point did I ever advocate war?  Yet again, because of my military profession that now makes me a warmonger.  Genius.

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

… and you do not hold the exclusive franchise to grant or deny rights to anyone.[/quote]
Oh no, here we go again.  

I never said I held an exclusive franchise over the rights of others.

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

You don't hold the monopoly on pride either.[/quote]
Never said that either.

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

Hypocricy, to claim that you do not seek to deny someone's rights.[/quote]
Oops, there it is once more.  

Dude this is becoming classic:

“Monty Python’s: Holy Grail”
Arthur: “Shut up, will you?  Shut up.”
Dennis: “Ah! Now we see the violence inherent in the system.”
Arthur: “Shut up!”
Dennis: “Ooh … Come and see the violence inherent in the system.  Help, help, I’m being repressed!”
Arthur: “Bloody peasant!”
Dennis: “Oh what a give-away.  Did you hear that eh?  That’s what I’m on about.  Did you see him repressing me?  You saw it, didn’t you?”

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

Don't assume that I am a pacifist.[/quote]
Never said you were.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

no wonder F911 is making so much money. I keep thinking I should lock this thread, but Discipline without Freedom is tyranny. Freedom without Discipline is thread #1088947258 at DVXuser.com
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=Jarred Land link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=195#198 date=07/07/04 at 10:22:15]Love is in the air... can you feel it wohhhoooohhh ..... love is in the air...[/quote]

You are a scholar and a gentleman, I would have locked the thread at the first curse word, and banned the person who threw the curse word for thirty days immediately. Conversations like these, if not held to a fairly high standard, rapidly fall to the lowest common denominator on the Internet. And, in my personal experience, the first person to curse out the other is the guilty party, as it encourages others to do the same.

It really has nothing to do with freedoms, but with allowing free discourse. People who blindly attack with no provocation are problematic on any forum, destroying more free discussions than they create. Now, when a NAZI or a Klansman, or a person like that traipses through, as happens in the Internet from time to time, they will naturally cause a reaction, but even that must be controlled.

In any case, you have more patience than I, and should be commended.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

Thanks for sharing, but all this is irrelevant to our discussion. What point were you trying to make here? I wont do as you have done, which is to leap to some illogical conclusion.
[/quote]
If you don’t understand the context in which those points where given then it’s not worth elaborating further.

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

You haven't even learned the lesson yet.[/quote]
Oh, was there some lesson to be learned? You know us warmongers, we’re too busy burning villages and killing babies to learn stupid lessons.

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

You give yourself away in your own statements.[/quote]
How?

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

You haven't seen your family in almost two years. I am sure that they love you and miss you very much. Do you, in your heart of hearts, truly believe that they think this lost time is worth the questionable gain that might come from your current duty?[/quote]
Yes.

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

I am sure that they support you, but I'd bet that they miss you more. History is already against you.[/quote]
And how exactly did you come up with that conclusion?

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

When you are older and wiser, will you still feel that this sacrifice was worth it?[/quote]
Yes. At least one day I can look myself in he mirror with pride knowing that I served my country and did my small part to protect her freedoms and the ideals that she embodies. What have you done for Canada?

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

I ask because I think the answer is no.[/quote]
Of course you would think that. No surprises here.

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

At least I am giving you the credit of future enlightenment. I hope the pain that accompanies the wisdom is bearable for you.[/quote]
Hehe … Thanks, but I think I can manage just fine.

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

At this point it seems that you have learned nothing.[/quote]
And what have you learned? That it’s easier to sit on the sidelines, never taking part in anything, but complaining about everything. I guess it easier sitting by the computer manufacturing chaotic conspiracy theories, defending the right of others to spout off illogical statements and hate filled phrases and then in the same breath have the audacity to complain to others about their content of speech.

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#150 date=07/07/04 at 03:23:06]

If you could watch men die and you still do not respect life enough to come home to your family, then I fear that you are beyond hope. We only get one life. The only point I was trying to make here is that some people have made the same sacrifice as you have, and more, and they do not share your views at all. Some people try to see the world as it truly is, and not just try to destroy it to rebuild it in their image. I think that many of Tony H's statements are insupportable, and I should have made that more clear from the start. Memorial day is not stupid, Tony. It is the very reminder of past sacrifice that people like you should welcome.[/quote]

Who are you to say that I don’t respect life? Yet again and again and again, you make unfounded accusations and assumptions based on stereotyped personas. As a soldier, I can say with no reservation that I absolutely detest war and everything it’s about.

General MacArthur said it best at West Point in 1962.

Yours is the profession of arms, the will to win, the sure knowledge that in war there is no substitute for victory, that if you lose, the Nation will be destroyed, that the very obsession of your public service must be Duty, Honor, Country.

Others will debate the controversial issues, national and international, which divide men's minds. But serene, calm, aloof, you stand as the Nation's war guardians, as its lifeguards from the raging tides of international conflict, as its gladiators in the arena of battle. For a century and a half you have defended, guarded and protected its hallowed traditions of liberty and freedom, of right and justice.

Let civilian voices argue the merits or demerits of our processes of government. Whether our strength is being sapped by deficit financing indulged in too long, by federal paternalism grown too mighty, by power groups grown too arrogant, by politics grown too corrupt, by crime grown too rampant, by morals grown too low, by taxes grown too high, by extremists grown too violent; whether our personal liberties are as firm and complete as they should be.

These great national problems are not for your professional participation or military solution. Your guidepost stands out like a tenfold beacon in the night: Duty, Honor, Country.

You are the leaven which binds together the entire fabric of our national system of defense. From your ranks come the great captains who hold the Nation's destiny in their hands the moment the war tocsin sounds.

The long gray line has never failed us. Were you to do so, a million ghosts in olive drab, in brown khaki, in blue and gray, would rise from their white crosses, thundering those magic words: Duty, Honor, Country.

This does not mean that you are warmongers. On the contrary, the soldier above all other people prays for peace, for he must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war. But always in our ears ring the ominous words of Plato, that wisest of all philosophers: "Only the dead have seen the end of war."
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=Jarred Land link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=195#201 date=07/07/04 at 10:50:30] no wonder F911 is making so much money. I keep thinking I should lock this thread, but Discipline without Freedom is tyranny. Freedom without Discipline is thread #1088947258 at DVXuser.com [/quote]

Jarred, just wanted to let you know I didn't think THIS would happen in the thread. I just wanted to say Happy Fourth to everyone.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#151 date=07/07/04 at 04:04:50]Not that Slapdragon needs the help defending himself, but he's married to a Brazilian marine biologist and (presumably) spends a goodly amount of time there.

Make sense?[/quote]
No, that doesn't make sense. So, if Ranger was to find a pretty little Iraqi thing while getting his war on, he should sport an Iraqi flag? Or was it Korea?
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#153 date=07/07/04 at 04:43:46]Hey, Roadking --

Last I heard, you were up for debating "personal freedom."  Now, really -- list 9-10 things you're personally free to do and I'm not.

Give it a shot.  I'd really like to know what you think.
[/quote]
Well, they're close to legalizing pot, but the US government keeps pressuring them to not do that. They also don't have a nazi-like FCC. You can actually hear the word **** on local TV stations there.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#161 date=07/07/04 at 05:26:12]While I am here I just want to go on record as saying that I am not Anti-American, in case you were wondering. I think close relations with the U.S. are our best bet right now, and I hope you folks down south someday get the country that you think you have.[/quote]
Don't fall for their tricks. They want you to think that disliking the American government is anti-american, but nothing could be farther from the truth.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#162 date=07/07/04 at 05:33:32]

I don't even SLIGHTLY fear the American government, for three reasons:

1)  I *understand* it.

2)  I am PART of it.

3)  My freedoms as an American protect me from it.

Did you *really* think I'd agree with it?  And if you DO agree with it, then you really don't understand as much as you think.

OK, then, what am I *restricted* from doing that you're not?

For someone who's happy to debate anyone, anytime, you sure are avoiding it.
[/quote]
He's also free to be healthy. In Canada, they have the right to free healthcare. In America, we get free indoctrination... err, I mean education, but not free healthcare? What's more important than your health?
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#163 date=07/07/04 at 05:35:24]

I can't give you a complete answer right now, but let me just say this: I am free to sell a bong and not go to prison. Tommy Chong is in an American prison, doing 9 months for selling bongs on the net. Now tell me about your precious freedom.
[/quote]
These guys like to try and throw you off by asking questions all the time. If it wasn't for the US, your government would probably give you even more freedoms.

That's right about the Tommy Chong thing. There's actually a pot bar in Canada right now, that's not technically legal, but has not been shut down. I read about it in Rolling Stone. Also, I know your government basically gives a slap on the wrist for possession.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=Tony_H link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=195#208 date=07/07/04 at 11:23:26]
Well, they're close to legalizing pot, but the US government keeps pressuring them to not do that. They also don't have a nazi-like FCC. You can actually hear the word **** on local TV stations there.[/quote]

"Close to," maybe, but not yet. But still, you're trying, where Roadking didn't.

As for the TV profanity, that's true in some respects, though that kind of language can be heard on American broadcast TV after 11:00 pm. And the US doesn't have the criminal restrictions on "hate speech" which you will find in Canada.

As such, it's *still* a wash.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=165#166 date=07/07/04 at 06:04:46]Since you asked, here are some more freedoms that I enjoy:

The freedom to elect a leader and not watch him murdered by the government. (see Kennedy Ass.)

The freedom not to get shot by the cops just because I'm black. (see this every day.)

The freedom to not be drafted and get killed in a phony war for oil, or drugs, or whatever else Dubya or any other crooked politician has his eyes on. (see Gulf war I, II)

The freedom to criticise the gov. and not be investigated by the F.B.I. (see COINTELPRO, and many others.)

The freedom to vote for the candidate of my choice and not have it stolen by the gov. (see 2000 election)

I am only getting started.[/quote]
That's true David... they don't have a patriot act in Canada. They can't go looking through the books he gets from the library. They can't do a "sneak and peek" while he's out, and they can't monitor his phone conversations.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=165#169 date=07/07/04 at 06:29:28]All you're doing is spouting insults and conspiracy-themed innuendo.  The Patriot Act did nothing more than consolidate already existing powers under a more central hierarchy.  The powers Bobby Kennedy used to bust up the Mafia were far more extensive and far more "onerous" in that sense than anything Patriot Act did.  It did not repeal any aspect of the Bill of Rights and there's yet to be a single prosecution derived from evidence obtained by using those powers.

I have been in and out of more political structures and organizations than you have teeth.  I have been deeply involved in many aspects of government, business, and law.  I'm eminently qualified to judge what makes my government work, and I'll forget more tomorrow than you'll ever know, going by the inanity that you post above.  From what I can tell, you get your info from Art Bell and occasional BBC soundbites.

Look, I can't help it if you can't back up your boisterous statement, but insulting me doesn't change that fact.  You want to *really* put me in my place?  Prove your case.

And by the way, the United States has no draft.[/quote]
They have a "stop loss" which is essentially a draft.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=Tony_H link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=210#214 date=07/07/04 at 11:35:37]
They have a "stop loss" which is essentially a draft.[/quote]
Wrong. You're comparing apples to oranges.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=Tony_H link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=210#210 date=07/07/04 at 11:29:22]
He's also free to be healthy. In Canada, they have the right to free healthcare. In America, we get free indoctrination... err, I mean education, but not free healthcare? What's more important than your health?[/quote]

We're not "free to be healthy" here?

A material benefit bestowed by the government is not a "personal freedom." It's an entitlement, and with it comes many strings (and high taxes) which we don't have here.

I'm free to choose any doctor, any hospital, and I can schedule a surgery within weeks which would take months or years in Canada.

STILL a wash.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=180#181 date=07/07/04 at 08:19:00]I have the right to vote, Roadking
[/quote]
Well, we say we have the right to vote, but people like Roadking were up in Canada watching our black citizens get their right to vote taken away in Florida of 2000. As a matter of fact, everyone that voted for Gore lost their right to vote that year.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=Slapdragon link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=180#189 date=07/07/04 at 08:58:29]

Roadking, so far in your penis measuring efforts, you are not presenting facts.  You first used a bunch of conspiracy theories and howlers, now you present data without a presentation of evidence or an attempt to discuss the subjects, then claim everything he knows is wrong because of some massive conspiracy of "academics, politicians and other institutions".  For example, in air quality you are wrong, Canada was a major polluter of the USA since air currents move from north to south.  Parts of Canada do have better air quality, either because no one lives there (Prince Edward Island) or because the polution plume they create mostly moves into the United States (Toronto).  In fact, the United States has struggled for years with Canada over its nickle production industry.  That industry started, in the 1960s, to destroy American lakes / and the shared great lakes by raising the PH of the water, turning it acid, and started hurting US agriculture in the upper midwest.  Canada, not wanting to loose this important industry and worried over its staggering economy, told the US to feck off for many years.  That is, until 300,000 of her own lakes started to show the same signs of damage that US lakes had.  It took longer, because the stuff went into the air in Canada but most did not land in canada, but it happened.  In 1992 Canada went willingly into the Air Quality Accord, which was first proposed in a basic form in the 1970s when not only the effect of Canadian pollution on US lakes was noticed, but also the plumes of pollution created by US metropolitan areas.  

The point is, you seem to be taking everything you read on conspiracy websites as gospel and are unwilling engage David in honest conversation, which is poisoning this conversation.  In social terms, you are suffering from a huge dose of what is called "cognitive dissonance."  Some of your arguments may even have a dose of truth in them, but by dredging up an endless parade of unsupported conspiracy craziness and then doing the victory chicken dance on your sofa, you take away your own credibility. [/quote]
Oh, and here comes Slapdragon. He sensed someone with less knowledge than he, so he came out of his hole to fight!
 
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