Americans on the board...

Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#158 date=07/07/04 at 05:06:47] 

Whining and complaining are the first step toward change, why can't you people see that? Do you think the founding fathers picked up their muskets and cried WAR without a little bitching first?

[/quote]

LOL...nice. :) --shakes head--
 
Re: Americans on the board...

While I am here I just want to go on record as saying that I am not Anti-American, in case you were wondering. I think close relations with the U.S. are our best bet right now, and I hope you folks down south someday get the country that you think you have.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#159 date=07/07/04 at 05:12:07]

David what I mean is that we have all the freedoms that you good folks have but with fewer restrictions. Do you agree wih this statement: I fear the American government, but I do not fear the Canadian government?
[/quote]

I don't even SLIGHTLY fear the American government, for three reasons:

1) I *understand* it.

2) I am PART of it.

3) My freedoms as an American protect me from it.

Did you *really* think I'd agree with it? And if you DO agree with it, then you really don't understand as much as you think.

OK, then, what am I *restricted* from doing that you're not?

For someone who's happy to debate anyone, anytime, you sure are avoiding it.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#153 date=07/07/04 at 04:43:46]Hey, Roadking --

Last I heard, you were up for debating "personal freedom."  Now, really -- list 9-10 things you're personally free to do and I'm not.

Give it a shot.  I'd really like to know what you think.
[/quote]

I can't give you a complete answer right now, but let me just say this: I am free to sell a bong and not go to prison. Tommy Chong is in an American prison, doing 9 months for selling bongs on the net. Now tell me about your precious freedom.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#162 date=07/07/04 at 05:33:32]

I don't even SLIGHTLY fear the American government, for three reasons:

1)  I *understand* it.

2)  I am PART of it.

3) My freedoms as an American protect me from it.


Did you *really* think I'd agree with it?  And if you DO agree with it, then you really don't understand as much as you think.

OK, then, what am I *restricted* from doing that you're not?

For someone who's happy to debate anyone, anytime, you sure are avoiding it.
[/quote]

I am not avoiding, merely postponing, so that I don't go off half cocked and blow it. I know that the fate of the world rests on this subject. Ha Ha. I'm kidding but I'm not.

Also, dude, I know more about the underside of your government than you do and your statement proved it.

Not one of your statements is true.

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#162 date=07/07/04 at 05:33:32] quote]

Does this include all of the wrongfully convicted in prison? What about all the lynched black folks?
What about draftees killed in wars?
What about all the people in U.S. and abroad murdered by the CIA?
And lets hear from all those dead Iraqis.

It is such supreme arrogance to assume that your government can't be wrong.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

Anyone, anytime, you said. Now you're not only avoiding it, you're changing the subject.

If your dad is the no-bullshit guy you make him out to be, what would he think about having a beer with someone who spits out a challenge, cowboy-style, then stammers, haws, and runs when someone says "yeah, let's throw down"?

All of my statements are true. My understanding of this country, its history, its laws, and its government are vast. And I *will* put that up anytime, anywhere.

I never once said our government has never been wrong. I never once said we haven't done wrong. I never once said our history is unblemished. Indeed, blood has been shed within our country to fix many of the wrongs.

What I *did* do was take you up on your offer, to debate the relative levels of "personal freedom," of which you claim Canadians enjoy far more, and for which you give one weak example . . . and you balk.

Live up to your words or don't make the challenge.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

Since you asked, here are some more freedoms that I enjoy:

The freedom to elect a leader and not watch him murdered by the government. (see Kennedy Ass.)

The freedom not to get shot by the cops just because I'm black. (see this every day.)

The freedom to not be drafted and get killed in a phony war for oil, or drugs, or whatever else Dubya or any other crooked politician has his eyes on. (see Gulf war I, II)

The freedom to criticise the gov. and not be investigated by the F.B.I. (see COINTELPRO, and many others.)

The freedom to vote for the candidate of my choice and not have it stolen by the gov. (see 2000 election)

I am only getting started.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

Those are not personal freedoms; those are slogans.

And they’re all tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories to boot.

If you want to successfully argue your case, you must show that on balance, Canadians are more free to personally do more things within their daily lives than Americans are.

So, I’m still willing to hear what you have to say on it, but keep it within your original challenge.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#162 date=07/07/04 at 05:33:32]1)  I *understand* it.[/quote]

No I don't believe that you do. You may understand the legal structure that is visible and is ostensibly the fundamental infrastucture of your system of government, but if you were really a part of the gov. as you claim, you would know that the real business of government will never be explained in any textbook, law or constitution. The real business of government exists off the books, it is dirty, unfair, corrupt, and only understood by those who have truly been a part of it.



[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#162 date=07/07/04 at 05:33:32]1)3)  My freedoms as an American protect me from it.[/quote]

This is simply naive bullshit. As if the gov. can't take those freedoms away. see Patriot Act.

How many people did Dubya execute in Texas? If even one of them was innocent, what about his freedoms?

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#162 date=07/07/04 at 05:33:32]1)3)Did you *really* think I'd agree with it?  And if you DO agree with it, then you really don't understand as much as you think.[/quote]

You're right. I gave you too much credit here. Your military is currently stomping around the globe like a 600 pound gorrilla. Certainly nothing to fear.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

All you're doing is spouting insults and conspiracy-themed innuendo. The Patriot Act did nothing more than consolidate already existing powers under a more central hierarchy. The powers Bobby Kennedy used to bust up the Mafia were far more extensive and far more "onerous" in that sense than anything Patriot Act did. It did not repeal any aspect of the Bill of Rights and there's yet to be a single prosecution derived from evidence obtained by using those powers.

I have been in and out of more political structures and organizations than you have teeth. I have been deeply involved in many aspects of government, business, and law. I'm eminently qualified to judge what makes my government work, and I'll forget more tomorrow than you'll ever know, going by the inanity that you post above. From what I can tell, you get your info from Art Bell and occasional BBC soundbites.

Look, I can't help it if you can't back up your boisterous statement, but insulting me doesn't change that fact. You want to *really* put me in my place? Prove your case.

And by the way, the United States has no draft.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=165#167 date=07/07/04 at 06:15:22]Those are not personal freedoms; those are slogans.[/quote]

They are very personal to me. Anyone else agree?

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=165#167 date=07/07/04 at 06:15:22]And they’re all tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories to boot.[/quote]

O.K. Disprove them. Tinfoil-hat, I like that 8)

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=165#167 date=07/07/04 at 06:15:22]If you want to successfully argue your case, you must show that on balance, Canadians are more free to personally do more things within their daily lives than Americans are.[/quote]

All I said was personal freedoms, don't stray now.


[/quote]
 
Re: Americans on the board...

David if I insulted you I withdraw it. Inanites, hardly. I can't debate what you have been in and out of, so I will take your word for it. BTW, you still haven't really backed that up with a single quantifyable fact, but I believe you. Too suggest that you will forget more tomorrow than I will ever know is more bullshit that you can't back up. Let's stick to facts please. BTW now you have insulted me. Also you still have not properly refuted my original points, you just belittled them. I know th U.S. currently has no draft, I did not intend for my original statement to be specific to today, to the exclusion of near history. I don't know Art Bell, don't watch the BBC. You are batting .000

P.S. You know damn well that the draft is being considered.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

They’re slogans, not personal freedoms. Appealing to an audience doesn’t make them so.

And, as I said, tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories. YOU made the statements, so the burden is upon you to prove them. And they have nothing to do with your original challenge. (Not that they’re even internally consistent among themselves . . . the “gov.” in power in 2000 lost the election.)

A “personal freedom” is exactly that – freedom to make choices to act in your personal, daily life.

You’re not doing so well here. It’s becoming increasingly clear that you’ve got nothing to bring to this, yet I’m being very patient. Please, state your case rationally. I mean, I can only ask so many times before I reasonably conclude that you have no case to state. You’ve been given ample opportunity.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

Again, Roadking, you made the challenge, so it’s you who must prove your case. I only took you up on it.

You said “drafted” into one of “Dubya’s” wars, which would make it contemporary. And yes, it’s always on the board somewhere, but it’s currently only being brought up by guys like Rep. Charlie Rangel who are doing so only to make some point about racial equality – it’s not serious. The Bush administration is not considering it. You don’t do so well on the details, man.

I never applied the word “inanities” to you personally, only your statements, and that’s what they are. If you wish to show that you’re right, then PLEASE do so. I’ve only asked for it four or five times now.

So, your original challenge – on balance, demonstrate the “far more personal freedom” that you enjoy and I don’t. The anyone is me, the anytime is now.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

David you still avoid the issue and continue your denials. I will leave the self repetition to you. Your arrogance is astouding, now I am sure you are in the gov. You think that you can tie me up in semantics and rhetoric, but it is you who are short on rational points. Your own Congress concluded that Kennedy was killed by a "probable conspiracy" involving the CIA. I just voted the other day, and it was very personal to me. If you don't believe that, fine. if you want to reject the idea of voting as a personal freedom, that is your personal choice.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

Ryan I hope that was a joke. I don't believe that I have been unreasonable. I consider everything you say, all of you, and I value this debate, and your opinion. David I don't accept your definition. You said that I get to define this debate. If you can't offer a coherent argument, that is no failing of mine. I only said that the draft is being considered. If that is a political ruse, all the better for you, I guess. I already explained that I did not mean exclusively contemporary. BTW, have you read the Patriot Act? All of it? I have not.

Also please don't think that I don't respect your opinion, and please be respectful of mine.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

To be honest Roadking I was giving you a little more credit until you said:
The freedom to elect a leader and not watch him murdered by the government. (see Kennedy Ass.)

The freedom not to get shot by the cops just because I'm black. (see this every day.)

The freedom to not be drafted and get killed in a phony war for oil, or drugs, or whatever else Dubya or any other crooked politician has his eyes on. (see Gulf war I, II)

The freedom to criticise the gov. and not be investigated by the F.B.I. (see COINTELPRO, and many others.)

The freedom to vote for the candidate of my choice and not have it stolen by the gov. (see 2000 election)

Now I am with David.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

Really, what did David prove to you? I will concede the Patriot Act, simply because I have not read it. Other than that, I don't believe he refuted anything. If David's repetition and denial are what pass for debate in your town, then you have different standards than I. However, if you have a point to make, on either side, feel free. If you read the statement about the Patriot Act, you'll find it's true, even without the Act.
 
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