Americans on the board...

Re: Americans on the board...

ok.. careful on the personal attacks Tony.. its the only **** that I dont let fly here.

If your gonna *****, at least tone down the profane name calling. Slapdragon outranks you here, so even though you disagree, go ahead and disagree but show a tad of respect for him and the other readers that take choose to read this rather useless thread.

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=Jarred Land link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=135#140 date=07/06/04 at 23:11:33]...this rather useless thread...[/quote]

You ain't kidding.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=Slapdragon link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=135#138 date=07/06/04 at 23:07:42]

I respectfully put forward that you are a moron.  I have never been arrested before in my life, but have 50 felony arrests under my belt.

Question to the intelligent members of our forum: How can this quandry be solved?  How can someone have fifty felon arrests under their belt, yet never have been arrested before? A free chocalate chip cookie to the first person who can explain to our intellectual giant here.   [/quote]

Despite all of your credentials, you're not too bright yourself, especially when it comes to vocabulary. I had to teach you what the words elite, verbal, and snob meant.

I'm glad you're a pig instead of a scumbag criminal. That's a relief because it seriously sounded like you were bragging about being a violent d******d. I still think you're a jerk (note: I'm not calling you a jerk, that's what I think you are) and I don't care what you think.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=Tony_H link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=135#143 date=07/06/04 at 23:28:28]

Despite all of your credentials, you're not too bright yourself, especially when it comes to vocabulary. I had to teach you what the words elite, verbal, and snob meant.

I'm glad you're a pig instead of a scumbag criminal. That's a relief because it seriously sounded like you were bragging about being a violent d******d. I still think you're a jerk (note: I'm not calling you a jerk, that's what I think you are) and I don't care what you think. [/quote]

Part-time deputy pig and former video producer for the federal pigs and you are still making personal attacks no matter what type of games you play.  When you devolve on an adult forum such as this to personal attacks, you lesson yourself and make the purpose of the forum, communication between intellectuals, more difficult.  And as I said earlier, you also shame yourself in front of your peers.  I am not moderator of this part of the forum, but you might consider that a moderator and owner asked you to clean up your act a bit.  His house, his rules.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

you lesson yourself
Click to expand...
you mean I lessen myself?

The modorator asked me to stop making profane insults...

I don't want to call you a hypocrite, so I'll just quote you a couple of times:

When you devolve on an adult forum such as this to personal attacks, you lesson yourself and make the purpose of the forum, communication between intellectuals, more difficult
Click to expand...

I respectfully put forward that you are a moron.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Americans on the board...

Slapdragon, I think you're just trying to make as many posts in as short of an amount of time possible. Half of your posts have been in the last two or three days and most of them are meaningless. That's what this thread is really about. You just want your rank to grow as quickly as possible, huh?
 
Re: Americans on the board...

Slapdragon has posted some of the most intelligent posts I have read next to Barry Green here, although I agree with Tony on some of the political points here, except the name calling.

I think Tony you should speak a little more gracefully as well, all that swearing make you look a little redneckish. You make some good points, and people might take you seriously if your words where more elegant.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

Sorry, I'm not very elegant. Many people agree with my argument, but disagree with my delivery. That's fine... I'm glad you agree with me and your impression of me is probably correct. I'm not a redneck, but I was raised by them  :-[

I have no doubt that Slapdragon has made some profound posts here, but how many? Ten, Twenty? He's made 201 posts here in the past ten days. Most of my posts are simply replies to his comments towards me. This is sure an intelligent thread huh :-/
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=Ranger link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=105#107 date=07/06/04 at 02:03:03]ROTFLMAO!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

At least we know how Bagdad Bob spends his free time.

07-minister.jpg

Bagdad Bob or Tony_H?

Famous Quotes by Tony_H ...err I mean Bagdad Bob

"They're not even [within] 100 miles [of Baghdad]. They are not in any
place. They hold no place in Iraq. This is an illusion ... they are
trying to sell to the others an illusion."

However, by the end of the war (WWII) "our side" had committed atrocities that I consider terrorism, including Hiroshima and Nagasaki in which as many as 230,000 civilians were targeted and killed.

Called Americans and Brits "Tarateer"– In Iraqi slang, Tartoor means a guy full of farts (i.e. hot air)

We also killed over 100,000 Iraqi soldiers in this war and only lost 147 of our own. Hmm... we lost 147 soldiers and they lost 20,000 civilians... that doesn't sound like an honorable battle to me. Sounds more like terror.

"Lying is forbidden in Iraq. President Saddam Hussein will tolerate nothing but truthfulness as he is a man of great honor and integrity. Everyone is encouraged to speak freely of the truths evidenced in their eyes and hearts."

The United States has a history of ignoring and not even recognizing attocities commited all over the world.

"I triple guarantee you, there are no American soldiers in Baghdad."

Britain "is not worth an old shoe"

"We are in control. They are in a state of hysteria. Losers, they think that by killing civilians and trying to distort the feelings of the people they will win. I think they will not win, those bastards."

I've read civilian death estimates of this war around 20,000. That's 20,000 men, women, and children dying violent deaths that were minding their own business.

"The British forces which were dropped there have been eliminated mostly on the (battle)field, except for those who fled ... It is a complete defeat ... Amazingly the Americans have pushed the British to do that. They pushed them ahead as if it is an experiment. The result was very tragic for the British."

"Today I have visited whole Baghdad city, no invaders found. You go and see how we have ousted them from this city. They are cying outside and waiting to receive bullets. They will be killed shortly."

You've read my version of US history (and that doesn't even count the mass murderer Christopher Columbus), now give me your blindly patriotic versions!

Here's a new avatar to replace the one you have now.
tz.sahaf.jpg
[/quote]

This post is just ignorant. Need I say more?
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=Ranger link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=105#116 date=07/06/04 at 10:35:57]
Whereas ignorance, stupidity and apathy are not?].[/quote]

I think you have demonstrated ignorance and stupidity, along with contempt for the freedoms of others, which is why I singled you out. The fact that someone with your mindset actively attempts to force his opinions on others is why I think you are so dangerous.

[quote author=Ranger link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=105#116 date=07/06/04 at 10:35:57][By your logic, am I not also entitled to the same freedoms of speech that you are now defending Tony_H on?  Do I not also have the same right to make value judgments that Tony_H has freely expressed throughout this thread?  At what point did I ever mention that I wanted to suppress any of Tony’s freedoms?  I merely made a judgment call, as he has, based on his incendiary comments and poor forum etiquette where he was openly insulting to those that wanted to share a Happy Fourth greeting.[/quote]

Yes you are entitled to the same rights that you would deny to others. I never said that you wanted to suppress his freedoms, but now I believe that you do.

[quote author=Ranger link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=105#116 date=07/06/04 at 10:35:57]As I have.  What’s good for the goose …

I do, but I still think he’s a buffoon and it’s my FREEDOM to express that viewpoint.

It was more than just a simple disagreement over the government and you know that.  Additionally, he also referred to Canada, Australia and the Netherlands as “better countries”.  It only made sense that he should naturally relocate to one of those better countries.  I’m sure he would be happier elsewhere. [/quote]

A true patriot would never abandon his country. Would you?  Did you ever think of that?

[quote author=Ranger link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=105#116 date=07/06/04 at 10:35:57]Actually, I would.  Not that this is any of your business, but I’ve already seen action in a combat zone and sadly I’ve seen men die.  After Korea, I will probably be sent back to Iraq.  I’ve already lost two friends to this war.  I haven’t seen my family in almost two years.  So don’t get pretentious with me asking whether or not I have the balls.  In my circles, you haven’t earned that right.  If you had made that comment in my presence you would be on the ground at this moment.  Fact![/quote]

I am sorry that you have had to watch men die, and I am sorry that you have lost friends to war. Truly. My question was neither rhetorical nor an insult. I truly want to know if you would overthrow your own government if you belived it to be the right thing to do.(I would find the decision terrifying) As far as any rights that I may or may not have earned, how could you possibly know or judge? Your statement is patently ignorant. I did not imply killing, just the act of revolt. In my circles, kneejerk warmongers are not welcome and you do not hold the exclusive franchise to grant or deny rights to anyone. The fact that you think that you do, demonstrates the kind of arrogance that I hate and will always oppose. You don't hold the monopoly on pride either. Your final solution is to threaten me with violence. This is exactly the kind of intolerance that I was referring to, and I hope everyone here recognizes it. Hypocricy, to claim that you do not seek to deny someone's rights, and then make threats because someone asks you an honest question. Don't assume that I am a pacifist, or who would be on the ground. I've been shot at too Ranger, and I'm still here. I have never been afraid of guys like you, only the damage that you leave in your wake. BTW, killing on the orders of your government does not qualify as heroism in my book, as too many evil people have done exactly that. Remember the Nazi's? What you do is not even remotely similar to revolution, and one could argue that it is the exact opposite.

[quote author=Ranger link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=105#116 date=07/06/04 at 10:35:57]I think it’s time that I gave you some additional perspective into my background.  My parents live in Fredericksburg, Virginia.  My mom grew up as young girl within stones throw of Martha Washington's home and the infamous Sunken Road during the Battle of Fredericksburg.  My grandfather once owned a business across the street from Hugh Mercer’s apothecary (one of George Washington’s generals who died at the Battle of Princeton), later she with my grandparents built a house just outside the city.  The land the house was built on was once the campground of several CSA regiments during the Civil War and Colonial and British regiments during the Revolution.  Behind the house and just beyond the farmland, there remain entrenchments and field fortifications that snake back into the undergrowth of the woods behind it.  The road that flanks my parents home is the same route George Washington and Rochambeau’s armies used during movement toward Yorktown in 1781.  And last but not least, hidden deep in the woods is a vacant old mansion, built in 1720 by a former influential tobacco family called Conway.  This was the same house that would eventually see the birth and early years of the father of the US Constitution and our fourth president – James Madison.  This was James Madison’s grandparents and mother home.  On my wife's side, both her grandparents were POWs in Japanese prison camps.  One was eventually beheaded just before the end of the war.  Anyway, I could go on with this, but I suspect my words will fall on deaf ears.  
<edit: I also had the privilege to raise the US flag over the USS Arizona.>[/quote]

Thanks for sharing, but all this is irrelevant to our discussion. What point were you trying to make here? I wont do as you have done, which is to leap to some illogical conclusion.

[quote author=Ranger link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=105#116 date=07/06/04 at 10:35:57]So spare me the lecture on which country I should belong in.  I think I have a good grasp into the principles and ideals that were the foundation of this country.  I don’t need a Canuck to remind me of that.[/quote]

Reminder? You haven't even learned the lesson yet. You give yourself away in your own statements. You haven't seen your family in almost two years. I am sure that they love you and miss you very much. Do you, in your heart of hearts, truly believe that they think this lost time is worth the questionable gain that might come from your current duty? I am sure that they support you, but I'd bet that they miss you more. History is already against you. When you are older and wiser, will you still feel that this sacrifice was worth it? I ask because I think the answer is no. At least I am giving you the credit of future enlightenment. I hope the pain that accompanies the wisdom is bearable for you. At this point it seems that you have learned nothing. If you could watch men die and you still do not respect life enough to come home to your family, then I fear that you are beyond hope. We only get one life. I know from personal experience that the things that we do not give to our loved ones are the things we regret most. I hope the lesson is not lost on you.

[quote author=Ranger link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=105#116 date=07/06/04 at 10:35:57]Let me start off by saying that I thank your father and your uncle for their service during WWII.  Now whether your father would desire to drink with Tony instead of Slapdragon or myself … okaaaaay, and your point is (besides being insulting)?  No offense, but I could care less who your father wants to have a beer with.  Did it ever cross your mind that if your father were sharing a beer with Tony_H then I probably wouldn’t want to be in his company anyway?  I’ve known too many vets, from too wars, from too many countries to feel slighted by someone knowingly drinking with a person that refers to the flag as toilet paper and calling Memorial Day stupid.  To each his own I guess.[/quote]

The only point I was trying to make here is that some people have made the same sacrifice as you have, and more, and they do not share your views at all. Some people try to see the world as it truly is, and not just try to destroy it to rebuild it in their image. I think that many of Tony H's statements are insupportable, and I should have made that more clear from the start. Memorial day is not stupid, Tony. It is the very reminder of past sacrifice that people like you should welcome.

[quote author=Ranger link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=105#116 date=07/06/04 at 10:35:57]Honestly, I believe Slapdragon would think twice before committing soldiers and here’s why, at least with Slapdragon I would feel reasonably assured that he at least would think through the issues before acting, unlike Tony_H, who is about as enlightened on history and politics as a Calvin and Hobbes comic strip.  That’s okay, but no thanks!  Sometimes taking the Neville “Peace in our time” Chamberlain approach to issues is not always the best course of action.[/quote]


Slapdragon is certainly more verbose than Tony H, but I think that Tony's intuition is much closer to the truth than Slap will ever be. Slap has many facts to back his arguments, but those of us who are not intimidated by his intelligence can read between the lines and see the lies. If you cannot, I pity you.
Slap, if you are American born and bred, and you have certainly implied this if not stated it, I repeat: why do you hide your nationality behind the Brazilian flag? I think that this is one example of your dishonesty.

I proudly offer the one finger salute!

"Don't tread on me!"
 
Re: Americans on the board...

Not that Slapdragon needs the help defending himself, but he's married to a Brazilian marine biologist and (presumably) spends a goodly amount of time there.

Make sense?
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=Slapdragon link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=75#86 date=07/05/04 at 16:46:23] By the way, not only do my students know my handle, but the ones I work with during the summer have been asked to start accounts here in order to learn from the many dignitaries of the production world which have ended up in this delightful backside of the Internet.[/quote]

Backside of the Internet? Jarred are you listening? He's dissing your baby. LOL. 
 
Re: Americans on the board...

Hey, Roadking --

Last I heard, you were up for debating "personal freedom." Now, really -- list 9-10 things you're personally free to do and I'm not.

Give it a shot. I'd really like to know what you think.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#151 date=07/07/04 at 04:04:50]Not that Slapdragon needs the help defending himself, but he's married to a Brazilian marine biologist and (presumably) spends a goodly amount of time there.

Make sense?[/quote]

No, but I will wait for his response. Thanks.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

whew...took me awhile to catch up  :)  Pretty long thread for only three days.  Any chance you guys are almost done?  If not, here's my thoughts.

I love the USA.  I was born to a typical lower middle-class family and have never doubted once that I could do anything I wanted, such as become a Doctor, Senator, Diplomat, President, Millionaire, Billionaire, Real Estate Tycoon, Priest, Professor, Pilot, etc, etc, etc.  The fact is, America offers more people more opportunities than any other nation on the face of the earth.  And no matter what you believe, you have to agree that America offers more opportunity than any other country to actually CHANGE the things that you think should be changed.  No one is saying that it will be easy, but it's open to almost anyone who is willing to work hard enough and never ever quit.  That is true freedom.

I'm currently serving with the US Navy in Sicily.  Things are not great here, and I'm definitely not going to stay in the Navy.  I'm not the military type, and I disagree with much of what I see going on, but I'm still proud of my country.  I guess it comes down to seeing the world in black and white vs. shades of grey.  Don't misunderstand me-I am not a relativist in any sense of the word.  I think that the US has many flaws (like every country) but has done more good than harm.  Regardless, I would rather spend my time doing my part to make it better than whining and complaining about the very system that allows me the liberty of free speech.

I'm a Christian (opening myself up, I know) and yet I don't agree with a lot of what I see going on or that has been done before in the name of Christ (or any other God).  There are very few things in the world that can be trusted 100%.  

To Slap, John, and David, I appreciate your patience and intelligent responses to this issue.

To Tony_H and RoadKing, I also appreciate your views and position.  I have many friends who believe many things different than I do.  I know it sounds corny, but diversity IS important.  As they say "if two people agree on every issue, one of them is unnecessary."  And I know it is frustrating when people disagree with you, personal attacks never ever win you points or help your argument.  Lastly, don't be one of these people who lives like a complete hypocrite.  As has been pointed out, if you're a true anarchist (which I don't believe for a second, and I doubt you would either, if you followed anarchy through to its logical conclusion.) then are you still paying your taxes?  Do you live with complete disregard for the law?  Do you vote, btw?  Cause if not, I don't think you have a right to complain.  And I doubt a true anarchist would vote.   :D  I don't mean to attack you, but part of debate is presenting yourself and your arguments in a constructive way, in order to gain credibility.  

Last thought for everyone:

What angers me more than anything is people who leech the freedoms of America while complaining about America and discounting the Patriotism that bought those freedoms with blood.  Don't be a leech.  :)  Also, be careful not latch on too quickly to an idea and refuse to change your mind.  People who say things like "I'll never change my mind, no matter what" are truly sad.  I don't have a single belief that I would not let go if presented with significant evidence that it was false.  

This board is almost like a mini-film school in itself.  And the advantage over reading books is that you get to network with others who are working in the field and hoping to work in the field.  As a result, a certain degree of professionalism and courtesy is always a good idea.  You never know who might be hiring you or sending some work your way...

Very Respectfully (to ALL),
Ryan Waggoner
 
Re: Americans on the board...

 [quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#153 date=07/07/04 at 04:43:46]Now, really -- list 9-10 things you're personally free to do and I'm not.

Give it a shot.  I'd really like to know what you think.
[/quote]

That's not exactly the way I meant it. That's the problem with these not verbal discussions, it is too easy to misinterpret folks. I am probably just as guilty as anyone.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=roadking67 link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=105#110 date=07/06/04 at 03:52:54]We have more personal freedom in Canada than you do in America, and I would be happy to debate that with anyone, anytime.[/quote]

Whatever, then, did you mean?
 
Re: Americans on the board...

 [quote author=Ryan Waggoner link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#155 date=07/07/04 at 04:45:25]The fact is, America offers more people more opportunities than any other nation on the face of the earth.[/quote]

This is not a fact, it is opinion. One that I do not share.

 [quote author=Ryan Waggoner link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#155 date=07/07/04 at 04:45:25]And no matter what you believe, you have to agree that America offers more opportunity than any other country to actually CHANGE the things that you think should be changed.[/quote]

I am sorry but this makes no sense to me.   [quote author=Ryan Waggoner link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#155 date=07/07/04 at 04:45:25] No one is saying that it will be easy, but it's open to almost anyone who is willing to work hard enough and never ever quit.  That is true freedom.[/quote]

Does your definition include the Patriot Act?

[quote author=Ryan Waggoner link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#155 date=07/07/04 at 04:45:25]I would rather spend my time doing my part to make it better than whining and complaining about the very system that allows me the liberty of free speech.[/quote]

Whining and complaining are the first step toward change, why can't you people see that? Do you think the founding fathers picked up their muskets and cried WAR without a little bitching first?



[quote author=Ryan Waggoner link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#155 date=07/07/04 at 04:45:25]What angers me more than anything is people who leech the freedoms of America while complaining about America and discounting the Patriotism that bought those freedoms with blood.  Don't be a leech.  :) [/quote]

To whom do you refer? 

P.S. Thank you for your comments.
 
Re: Americans on the board...

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1088947258;start=150#157 date=07/07/04 at 04:51:44]

Whatever, then, did you mean?
[/quote]

David what I mean is that we have all the freedoms that you good folks have but with fewer restrictions. Do you agree wih this statement: I fear the American government, but I do not fear the Canadian government?
 
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