Ambient Sound?

righteous.

righteous.

Well-known member
Something I have always wanted to add to my videos is ambient sound/sound effects. As far as ambient sound goes, I guess I mean that low-pitched, subtle "whirr" you hear in some films (Fight Club is a good example). Does anybody know of any links I should read up on regarding this? Or does anybody have any advice as to how to do this? I have a portable audio recorder that has a 32-bit WAV mode, and it accepts microphones with 1/8th jacks, if that helps.

Also, does anybody have any advice for recording quiet sounds? A good example, is in Darren Aronofsky's The Fountain, when Tom kisses his wife's neck. It shows an extreme close up of his lips touching the micro-hairs on her neck, and you can hear the hairs being shuffled, along with his faint breathing. Is this something I should record with a mic? Or synthesize in post? any advice is greatly appreciated!

Sorry if this has been covered; i tried searching numerous times on DVXuser and google and found nothing.
 
You'll need to be more specific than "Whirrr" in a film. What was happening when you heard "whirrr"? Is it a musical sound? A UFO passing by? A punch before it makes contact? Got a link to a video, with the time it happens in the video?

And the kiss that rustled a woman's facial hair was done in post. It had to be because when have you ever actually heard that? You would need a mic very close, or maybe use some other sound.
 
Chadfish said:
You'll need to be more specific than "Whirrr" in a film. What was happening when you heard "whirrr"? Is it a musical sound? A UFO passing by? A punch before it makes contact? Got a link to a video, with the time it happens in the video?

And the kiss that rustled a woman's facial hair was done in post. It had to be because when have you ever actually heard that? You would need a mic very close, or maybe use some other sound.
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by "whirr" I think I mean white noise? It doesn't sound like any specific object or action...im almost certain it was done in post, along with the sound of the hairs being rustled. My question is, how would I go about synthesizing (or otherwise) achieving this type of sound?

A good example can be found in this video:
http://www.vimeo.com/2286161
It's at the segment where it shows the cockroaches, and it cuts in and out, making this white noise apparent.

thanks
 
As Chadfish said, hearing the "sound" of micro-hairs is something that is created in post, perhaps Foley where they stroked a brush,etc. Very much of what you hear on the sound track of a high-budget film was created in post. Either asynchronous SFX clips, or sync Foley.

Some sound designers walk around with a mic and recorder in their pocket so they can "sample" all sorts of noises out in the Real World. That is what they use as raw ingredients to produce sounds like your "whirr", et.al. Have you looked for discussions of "Sound Design" for those films? Sometimes you can find interviews on the interweb (or in an "extra" on the DVD). I recall that there was that kind of thing for "StarWars"(4) and for "Hunt for Red October", where the sound designer discussed where he found different sounds and how they created sounds for various things.
 
Richard Crowley said:
As Chadfish said, hearing the "sound" of micro-hairs is something that is created in post, perhaps Foley where they stroked a brush,etc. Very much of what you hear on the sound track of a high-budget film was created in post. Either asynchronous SFX clips, or sync Foley.

Some sound designers walk around with a mic and recorder in their pocket so they can "sample" all sorts of noises out in the Real World. That is what they use as raw ingredients to produce sounds like your "whirr", et.al. Have you looked for discussions of "Sound Design" for those films? Sometimes you can find interviews on the interweb (or in an "extra" on the DVD). I recall that there was that kind of thing for "StarWars"(4) and for "Hunt for Red October", where the sound designer discussed where he found different sounds and how they created sounds for various things.
Click to expand...

I'm aware they did it in post, either through processing samples or synthesis. My question is, where do I start? How do I learn how to do this? When I search, all I can find is info on how to record dialogue etc., which isn't of much help...

Do I just use my synthesizer to play a bass note then add reverb, compression, etc.? any recommendations? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
 
There's a lot of buzzing style editing in that video. It's the music track. White noise is more of a "shhhh" sound. But it sounds like record clicks. Throughout that soundtrack there are buzz edits where you take a sound and cut it to just a millisecond or 2, then copy and paste like 50 in a ro and you get a buzz. I think some of it was a record click, cut out and repeated like a buzz. You could crinkle paper or slide your fingers across paper, then buzz edit it. You just have to imagine a sound that happens in the spectrum of the white noise, then record it. Or use a synth.
 
I advise amateur writers, directors, cinematographers, etc. to watch TV with the sound muted to start looking at what kinds of locations, shots, blocking, etc. they use and how they are edited together. Perhaps the converse of that would be good for getting a feel for sound design and production mixing.

Take your recorder out with you every day and try to listen for interesting sounds. Whether common or unusual. Record some good clean samples of reasonable length (~30 sec?) Start a collection of them and create a library with descriptions, key-words, etc. Use a multi-track audio editing system to combine them into interesting synthesized sounds. Study your examples and try to hear the components or origins of what they could have been made from.

YouTube appears to have hundreds (thousands?) of titles with "sound design": sound design, sound design tutorial, sound design for film, sound designer, sound designer fx, sound deign project, sound design for film, sound design for king kong, sound design for avatar, sound design for video games, sound design for games, sound design for lord of the rings, sound design for movies. There's gotta be at least half a dozen really good ideas in there.
 
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I can tell you that virtually nothing is "synthesized" in big budget films. As with a synth. A place to start would be the stickies on post in this forum. Ren Klyce did the sound for Fight Club (pretty much all of Finchers films) and he has some serious track counts so figure a LOT of tracks made up that "white noise". Of course it could be score your talking about. Music uses synths a LOT more than sound post does. In post you have a mix of a lot of recordings some very manipulated. Pitch shifting things up and down is sound post 101. Foley, (what you described with the kiss was probably 99% Foley). And just a lot of tracks. Samplers are used a fair amount but mostly for their pitching and layering abilities. It's not unheard of to use synth sounds but on your average big film (other than blips and such from "electronic gear") it will be 0% to maybe 2% of the sounds you hear. And I'm probably being very generous.

As to recording FX. Anything goes. If it sounds like something that might be of use record it. Beter mics and a better recorder are a plus but record hot and you will often be pulling it down in post so the noise will go down also.
BTW I suspect that the "32 bit" refers to a compressed bit rate as in an MP3 recording. I haven't seen any recorders recording at 32 bit as in 48/32 and I'm not sure what you would use them for if it did. BUT it's OK, maybe, for FX. If it sounds OK go for it.

And to erase doubt. If it came out of Hollywood and it's not dialog you can assume it was added in post. About the only PFX that ever make it into the mix are things that Foley didn't cover because of cost/ time. So maybe some cloth movement, a rustle hear and there but VERY rare. Indi's use a lot of PFX (cost/ time) and that is part of what makes most indi films not sound like Hollywood films.
 
Don't forget to mention that when he's listening to Fight Club he is listening to a 5.1 mix done by a team of people. - The big question here is if it's going to improve the final product that the OP is referring to.

Noiz2: yeah, even though there are all sorts of "synthetic" processors the original source fed to them whether from library or recorded new is usu organic..
 
As everyone has said just start building a library of your own sounds and then play with them. Pitch them up and down, distort them, use radical EQs, delays & other time based effects, resonant filters and anything else you can come up with. 90% of the time it's trash, but it's a way of expanding your thinking (and sometime trash works) not to mention that it's FUN!

It all starts with a passable mic and recorder. I started out with an Audio Technica AT822 stereo mic and a Sony minidisk recorder (there were no cool digital recorders at the time) in the field. A little hissy and the limiter kicked in big time for really hot transients, but I got a lot of great ambiences and other sounds that I still use. Now, of course, there are lots of great, affordable toys to play with.

Just tonight I was working on a film and had to use commercial library sounds for a car. I started with the stock stuff but I wanted it to be more mean and threatening, so I made copies of the tracks after I finished editing and pitched it down about six steps. A little Pitch and Time to take care of the Doppler effect and it came out great. I'll do even more with EQ and reverbs when I mix.

BTW, most ambiences are constructed, you don't just grab crickets (or whatever) and let it go at that. You stack layers of ambiences and loads of individual sounds to create precisely and controllably what you - or the director - desire.

Foley work is a whole other trip. I'm still getting the hang of it, but I'm a lot better and faster than I used to be. I spent a whole day doing nothing but characters drinking and handling beer and liquor bottles and an evening recreating a character cooking his dinner. I have no idea how far I've "walked", and I get the strangest looks when I buy high heels. Pick up "The Foley Grail" by Vanessa Ament - great book. You should also pick up Ric Viers "The Sound Effects Bible", another awesome book.

So get out there and record anything and everything, then put it in the box and start mangling. And have FUN! This is the best part of audio post!:2vrolijk_08:
 
Noiz2 said:
I can tell you that virtually nothing is "synthesized" in big budget films. As with a synth. A place to start would be the stickies on post in this forum. Ren Klyce did the sound for Fight Club (pretty much all of Finchers films) and he has some serious track counts so figure a LOT of tracks made up that "white noise". Of course it could be score your talking about. Music uses synths a LOT more than sound post does. In post you have a mix of a lot of recordings some very manipulated. Pitch shifting things up and down is sound post 101. Foley, (what you described with the kiss was probably 99% Foley). And just a lot of tracks. Samplers are used a fair amount but mostly for their pitching and layering abilities. It's not unheard of to use synth sounds but on your average big film (other than blips and such from "electronic gear") it will be 0% to maybe 2% of the sounds you hear. And I'm probably being very generous.

As to recording FX. Anything goes. If it sounds like something that might be of use record it. Beter mics and a better recorder are a plus but record hot and you will often be pulling it down in post so the noise will go down also.
BTW I suspect that the "32 bit" refers to a compressed bit rate as in an MP3 recording. I haven't seen any recorders recording at 32 bit as in 48/32 and I'm not sure what you would use them for if it did. BUT it's OK, maybe, for FX. If it sounds OK go for it.
Click to expand...

Oops, I meant 24-bit. Its an Edirol R-09 portable recorder. I also have a cheapo $80 shotgun mic that I used for video when I was first learning, so I can plug that in anytime. My budget is so low I don't think it could even be called a "budget." Btw, this purely for independent work; I just want some sound to accompany my personal short films, so I don't need anything that is "professional" by any means, although i wouldn't mind giving that impression...

unclebob6958 said:
As everyone has said just start building a library of your own sounds and then play with them. Pitch them up and down, distort them, use radical EQs, delays & other time based effects, resonant filters and anything else you can come up with. 90% of the time it's trash, but it's a way of expanding your thinking (and sometime trash works) not to mention that it's FUN!

It all starts with a passable mic and recorder. I started out with an Audio Technica AT822 stereo mic and a Sony minidisk recorder (there were no cool digital recorders at the time) in the field. A little hissy and the limiter kicked in big time for really hot transients, but I got a lot of great ambiences and other sounds that I still use. Now, of course, there are lots of great, affordable toys to play with.
Click to expand...

I just recorded the sound of our radiator, and it made a nice noise, although a bit trebly. I figure I could EQ some bass, add some reverb, and see how it works out.

thanks for your input gentlemen!
 
righteous. said:
Btw, this purely for independent work...
Click to expand...
The term "Indie" has really changed over the years; it used to mean independent of the studio system with a somewhat reduced but still substantial budget. But these days it has somehow become synonymous with poor scripts, amateur acting, shaky shots, bad lighting and crappy sound. Granted, there is some very nice work being done, but most of the "indie" stuff I see isn't even worth the time to watch it.
 
By "independent" I mean I am a college student who shoots journalistic style footage as a hobby (no acting, scripts, etc.) and wants to add an aural dimension to the footage. That is all :)
 
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