Am I the only one with problems using a wireless clip on mic???

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Deer Film

Well-known member
Hi, I have the Sennheiser ME4 clip on microphone , condenser, cardiod

When I film my subjects giving lectures or talking, I get a lot of pops in my sound footage. I have tried the little wind protector and also left it naked. I think it looks better on the subject and less noticeable without the protector. The problem I have is mic rubs against their clothes. I tried sticking it out farther, but then it looks strange. Sometimes the person is also holding a mic that the audience can hear, and if I can't plug into their feed, I go with my lav mic. So their arm sometimes rubs on my mic. My placement is on the collar, or 1/4 way down their shirt. Women are the most problem with extra clothes and jewelry.
What can I do so I don't spend so much time in editing fixing all the pops and rubbs on the sound files. It takes hours sometimes.
Also, I notice some speakers when they say words that start with "P" and other letters, the air hits my mic hard causing a pop spike on my audio.
Is the sennheiser EK100 G3, SK 100 G3, and ME 4 combo a good mic.
Please school me in placement and techniques.

also, doing sit down interviews, I have began to use my me 66 sennheiser just out of sight of the camera to record my subject. I need to find an overhead boom and tripod to make this work better. Any ideas on a tripod and boom for this.

But that still does not solve my problem with the wireless clip on mic.

Thanks for any help
 
The classic starting position for a lav is over the sternum on the midline of the chest, about 4 inches below the throat. Ball up your fist and rest it the centre of your chest with the thumb knuckle resting in the notch at the base of your throat between your collar bones. Your pinky finger will be resting where you should clip the mic. Viewed another way, draw an imaginary line down the centre of the chest and a second imaginary line from nipple to nipple - where they cross is about where you put the mic. Don't forget to rig a strain-relief loop in the cable just under the mic capsule. Look at the pictures of the "Newsman's Loop" (also called a "Broadcast Loop") on page 3 of this link, tha will help reduce the noise the sneaks into the mic ... http://fduarts.org/VPS/articles/lavs3.pdf

Shotguns on a static tripod mounted boom are problematic since it doesn't take much movement on the part of the subject to take him off-mic. A 'gun on a boom really needs a human hand on the tiller, as it were, in the form of a boom operator to keep it aimed properly as the subject moves about. Not to mention, interference tube shotguns like the ME66 are typically not very well behaved in the reflective interior environments where you're most likely to find yourself when conducting location interviews. A hyercardioid is a much better choice for your boom mic.
 
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A cardioid lav is very susceptible to plosives/wind, rubbing noises and off-axis sound issues.. head turns. An omni lav would be a better choice. Holding a lav (omni OR card) like a hand-held mic is the absolute worst place for it, and 'should' be avoided.
While the Sennheiser ME2 is an omni lav, I would not recommend it.
However placed properly, the ME4 should be 'usable'.
 
Do you keep the little foam wind cover, or just as itself. When would you use the cover. Because it looks like big bug. :)
Thanks for your comments and the help file.
You mentions "hyercardioid is a much better choice for your boom mic". I will search the forum to see what people would recommend for one. Thanks

For seminar presentations, the speakers move around so much. Maybe I should look into a unit where I supply a hand held mic, and then plug that into their audio line so the audience can here as well. That way I have a direct feed.

I have used the Shure UC4-UB Full Kit UHF Wireless Microphone System. Easy for me to feed into. Do you recommend going that way for people that are moving around a lot? Or do you have something else you would recommend?

thanks
 
Not sure if the Shure uc4 is legal to use anymore?
This was on the ebay page, ". Remember we can not ship this to an address in the United States including Hawaii and Puerto Rico and it is not allowed to be used in the USA after June 12, 2010".
 
You really should have gone for the omni ME2 rather than the cardioid ME4 as it would have been much better for you.

You need to mount the cardioid further away than an omni or you will get too many drop-outs as the speaker moves his/her head.

It really should be mounted centrally if possible and not too high - make a small loop of the cable and trap it with the clip (see picture - though this shows the professional MKE 2, it shows the principle) this prevents any cable rubbing noise getting to the mic. Also consider using one of the Rycote Personal Mic. Solutions.

I hope this helps.

21956d1299935846-how-use-tie-microphone-lav-tie-mic-fitting.jpg
 
Hi, thanks for this info. Well, if I need to buy a omni ME2, then that is what I need. They are around 140$ I hope this will work with my sennheiser EK100 G3, SK 100 G3. Is this the best omni lav mic I should get, or are there cheaper priced but still good quality omni lav mics. I read a review that the cable is very then and might not last. I guess if I have to add money that is ok, I just want less work in editing the audio and a nice clean sound.

So for the future, what does a guy use and do with a cardioid ME4? Before I used them to attach to a podium on a speaking stand. I put it around their mic which was on a stand and wrapped in tape. You could not see it and it did a great job.

So to be clear, for people giving lectures and walking around, the omni ME2 is the best way to go. If their clothing rubs or they breath down on the mic, will I still get those same pops? And how many inches down from the throat do I position it, .. 4 inches like Steve House said?

Rick, you said ,"While the Sennheiser ME2 is an omni lav, I would not recommend it. " Why did you say this, and what would you recommend?

Thanks
 
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Cardioid lavs are used primarily in sound reinforcement / PA applications where feedback control is an issue. Omni's are the more frequent choice for film and video work.

The ME2 will definitely work with your G3 but as to whether it's the "best" mic, that's a matter of conjecture. The general opinion is the ME2 is an adequate but not particularly great sounding mic and there are other lavs available, from Sennheiser and also other manufacturers, that are better sounding. Of course, "better" is also often more expensive.
 
The ME2 is what is the 'throw-in' mic that commonly is part of the Senn G3 package, it s a good decent mic but far from great.
The MKE2 is a workhorse that sounds tons better but is more expensive. there are several threads on here regarding different options and some of the Pro's favorites. a small search will help you locate those threads.
 
With regards to a Shure UC system in the UB frequency band... technically, this could still be used in a very narrow window, namely 692-698 MHz. So if you have one already, as long as you're very careful about choosing frequencies, you'd be OK. But I wouldn't buy one at this point even if you could, and since the majority of the UB "block" falls in the dreaded "700 Mhz band," I can see why somebody wouldn't want to sell one to anybody in the US.

Honestly, I was never a huge fan of the UC's anyway. The handheld transmitters had a tendency to crack, the belt clips on the body packs were always falling off, and the RF performance was weak. We replaced about 25 with Sennheiser G3's when the 700 MHz band went away, and those are an improvement in almost every way (with the only exception being the quality of the ME4 mic... :) ).
 
Hi, and thanks. I will do some searches of what lav people like. The nice thing is I can use my wireless sennheiser EK100 G3, SK 100 G3 unit. So I just need to find a good mic. I think I will use this a lot. And I read you can use under your shirt too. So if I need to pay 400 or more dollars, then it is worth it.
So to me, it is important I get a good one, because sound is most important.
If anyone recommends one, please send me a model number or link so I have a good starting point to research. I might as well go with what the pros use. Hopefully it is under 500 to 600 dollars.

I won't need a Shure UC system if I get a different lav mic. That would be awesome. I have been going years with my lav mic and spending so much time in editing. I thought it was just me or everyone had this problem. Thank you God for this forum and you guys helping me out.
 
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Not that the ME2 mic will not work, it will, but it ain't a hi quality sounding mic. For much less than $140, I would consider an Oscar Sound Tech mic, which are highly regarded by even the major league movie sound folk.

PS- If plosives are stiil an issue, an omni lav can be mounted upside-down to further reduce breath pops with very little change in the sound. Can't do that with an cardioid at all.
 
Read some threads from Chadfish
So I have some more options to look at
Rode Lav 250$
Rode PinMic 250$
Sanken Cos11D 379$
Sennheiser MKE2 400$
Sennheiser ME2 140$
Tram Tr-50 250$

The rode microphones are priced pretty low. Not sure what is better, the lav or PinMic?
remember, I need this to hook into my wireless system, not a XLR
Sounds good under clothes and good for speakers that walk around.
For most set ups, I will need to attach to the speaker quickly , so it is ok if it on the outside of clothing.

And if i get 2 of these, I can get a Oscar Sound Tech mic for a second mic.

So what do you think, is the Rode Lav the best bang for the buck for 250, or should I go to Sanken or MKE2?
Thanks
 
I think either plan will get you substantial gains in quality, The samples posted about the Rode are impressive and since its modular I would consider it if I didnt already own 4 MKE2.

Good luck.
 
The ME2 is a good little inexpensive omni.

There are two versions the "US" version is the one I would go for if you buy it as an extra.

This is the "round" ME 2:
9078_l.jpg

This is the better "oil barrel" ME 2-US
443911.jpg

The clip is also much better on the -US version

The MKE 2 (which I pictured above) is vastly better and is a true professional mic. used in broadcasting and theatre the world over.

The MKE 2 has an "umbrella diaphragm" to help protect it from moisture and sweat and the quality is extremely high.

Also - thin cable does not necessarily equal weakness - the MKE1 has a cable that is only 1mm in diameter and is so tough it's virtually unbrekable - most of the internals are Kevlar.
 
Deer Film said:
The problem I have is mic rubs against their clothes. I tried sticking it out farther, but then it looks strange. Sometimes the person is also holding a mic that the audience can hear, and if I can't plug into their feed, I go with my lav mic. So their arm sometimes rubs on my mic. My placement is on the collar, or 1/4 way down their shirt. Women are the most problem with extra clothes and jewelry.
Click to expand...

If your problem is handling noise, there are some Rycote products for that -- Stickies, Undercovers, etc. Or dumb old Moleskin. Make a broadcast loop and stick it to the clothes. As someone else said, placement should be right over the breast bone, close to the line running between the two nipples. If you've got problems with plosives, try turning the mic over (only works with an omni).
 
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