Am i rendering wrong?

Ryanmv11

Ryanmv11

Well-known member
So i have been wrestling with different render options with AVCHD.
I use Vegas Pro 9.
It handles it well though Magic Bullet wont work with my graphics card on my new laptop, anyways,

i still feel like my compression is leaving small blocks and weird artifacts and possibly ghosting. It just feels its not as clear as it should be. I'm coming from an A1 and didnt have problems especially in rendering, BUT i love this camera more (HMC150) i just cant figure it out fully yet. :(

I am rendering in Vegas Pro 9
as a

AVC
Bitrate- 10,000
Frame Size 1280x720
Internet HD 30

i also use a Brevis 35mm.

HMC settings

Shutter- 1/48
ND 1/4
Gain-L=0
Manual Focus

(i think those are the only important settings correct if i'm wrong)


Is there something i'm doing wrong? no color correction either on footage.
ps its password protected cause if my girlfriend saw i was using footage i was taking of her and posting it in forums i dont feel like hearing the end of that haha anyone help?


http://vimeo.com/6355739 (it may still be processing)
Password: Render



-Ryan
 
I use Vegas 8, so i don't have the exact defaults you do. In general, i don't render out my final format directly from Vegas. It's not the best renderer for HD. (I do use it to create mpg for DVDs).

Anyways, I use a tool called MeGUI (free) that front ends x264. The renders out MeGUI can be amazing. I usually render out to a lossless intermediate from vegas and use that to pipe through megui.

If you don't like that route, try rendering to a .mov from vegas and use a wavelet codec like photo jpeg. Files are a bit bigger, but you should be getting rid of artifacts.

One more thing, do you have a framerate issue? it almost looked like you had rendered a 24p file at 30p or something. Is the internet HD 30 preset 30p?

Kurtmo
 
yeah it is Internet 30p,
could that be an issue?

Megui? do you have a direct link for that "compressor?"?
i googled it but found things about it.

i'll try the MOV JPEG and let you know how that looks.
 
The Vegas "Pixel Format" setting determines the accuracy that Vegas will use when displaying and rendering your video images. I always use a 32-bit Full Range pixel format when working with AVCHD files shot with my HMC150 camera.

I will often see blocky pixel patterns when the "Pixel Format" is set to 8-bit, which indicates that the HMC150's color range is beyond what the 8-bit setting can reproduce.

Here's a blurb from the Vegas Help system:

Choose a setting from the drop-down list to indicate whether you want to perform video processing (compositing, scaling, previewing, rendering, and most video plug-ins) using 8-bit or 32-bit, floating-point arithmetic.

8-bit
Performs video processing using 8-bit arithmetic and in the video (studio RGB, or 16-235) color space.

32-bit floating point (video levels)
Performs video processing using 32-bit arithmetic and in the video color space.

32-bit floating point (full range)
Performs video processing using 32-bit arithmetic and in the full-range color space.

Tips:

32-bit floating point (video levels) is recommended when working with 10-bit YUV input/output or when using xvYCC/x.v.Color media.

When using 8-bit input/output, the 32-bit floating point (video levels) setting can prevent banding from compositing that contains fades, feathered edges, or gradients.
Click to expand...
 
TheDingo said:
The Vegas "Pixel Format" setting determines the accuracy that Vegas will use when displaying and rendering your video images. I always use a 32-bit Full Range pixel format when working with AVCHD files shot with my HMC150 camera.

I will often see blocky pixel patterns when the "Pixel Format" is set to 8-bit, which indicates that the HMC150's color range is beyond what the 8-bit setting can reproduce.

Here's a blurb from the Vegas Help system:
Click to expand...

Hm wow! i didnt know this thanks!!
I tested out JPEG PHOTO A with MOV and seemed to work flawlessly. I also changed the 8-bit to 32 full range and i personally dont see the ghosting and artifact with this setting and quicktime JPG A.
so thank you!

Now i'm thinking i have rendering sort of okay, now i need to get used to my HMC150.
Shutter speed average of 1/60 to everyone? i know its a personal preference but just wondering.

i was used to the HDV workflow before so taking on AVCHD is a bit more of a struggle. So thanks everyone who have responded, with patience and kindness.

-Ryan
 
Try this. On every single clip. Click on properties and disable resample. And always use 32bit pixel. Then you will see magic. And Ill bet you are shooting 720 24p?
 
O and another thing. Make sure your deinterlace is set to None..because you are in progressive mode.
 
Yes i am shooting 720/24

everything worked like a charm!!

Switched to 32 full range
render in photo JPEG A
disabled resample
and made sure my deinterlace was set to none

rendered and clean crystal clear, flowed beautifully footage, LOVE IT!
now i have a better impression of this camera!!
Thanks everyone!!!!

any recommended settings when working with an adapter? The colors look beautiful on my lcd but in post they look a lot more desaturated...i have been playing with scene files too.
Shutters arent my favorite.
I got my question answered!! thank you. I may go searching for answers on preferred camera settings :)
 
TheDingo said:
I will often see blocky pixel patterns when the "Pixel Format" is set to 8-bit, which indicates that the HMC150's color range is beyond what the 8-bit setting can reproduce.
Click to expand...

No, the 150 records in 8-bit, so while you may see improvement using 32-bit floating point, it's not because the footage is better than 8-bit.
 
i would render in 24.
than why do you see improvement? just curious...:/ not sounding like attitude i promise its just read that way..
 
The 32-bit color doesn't give you more color than is already there, but it does give you finer control over it.
 
David Jimerson said:
No, the 150 records in 8-bit, so while you may see improvement using 32-bit floating point, it's not because the footage is better than 8-bit.
Click to expand...

I also own a Canon HG21 consumer camera, and shooting the same subject with the Canon I see no visual difference when using the 8-bit or 32-bit setting.

With the HMC150 video, I see fine "banding" that looks like small blocks of pixel clumps when I use the 8-bit "Pixel Format" setting in Vegas 9 Pro. The "banding" smooths out into fine gradations when I switch to 32-bit "Pixel Format".

Visually, the HMC150 video has a greater colour and contrast range compared to the Canon HG21 video.
 
The 150 may have a better apparent image all around compared to the Canon, but it's still 8-bit and 4:2:0, so it has the same bit depth and color sampling as HDV, standard DVD, or PAL DV. The differences between it and the Canon are probably all about imagers, gamma curves, dynamic range, bit rates, and otherwise better hardware. It's not because it has "greater color" than 8-bit; it doesn't.
 
David Jimerson said:
It's not because it has "greater color" than 8-bit; it doesn't.
Click to expand...

What I wrote was:

I will often see blocky pixel patterns when the "Pixel Format" is set to 8-bit, which indicates that the HMC150's color range is beyond what the 8-bit setting can reproduce.
Click to expand...

Based upon my personal experience with Sony Vegas Pro in both the 8-bit and 32-bit "Pixel Format" settings, there is a fairly obvious pixel "banding/blocking" that appears when viewing HMC150 video with Vegas is set to the 8-bit "Pixel Format" mode. The "banding/blocking" smooths out when you switch to 32-bit "Pixel Format" mode.

I have no idea if this is a bug in Vegas's 8-bit "Pixel Format" implementation, or if there is something about the video stream that the HMC150 is creating that puts it outside of 8-bit color space.

Has anyone else seen this "banding/blocking" in other NLEs when switching between 8-bit and higher bit-depth formats?

I can post a couple of screen grabs if you want to see the "banding/blocking" I am seeing in Vegas 9.0b Pro.
 
Again, that's not because of the footage -- it's because of the processing within Vegas. The 150's footage is 8-bit.
 
My workflow for the web is simple. I edit native AVCHD, export uncompressed AVI to the frame size the footage was shot in, import to QT pro and export my H.264 file from there.
The reason for exporting the edited AVC footage uncompessed is that QT cant open AVCHD footage for some reason.
 
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