GH4 Am I going mad / going blind? GH4 noiseless in the dark?!

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Paul Walker

Active member
So I shot a music vid where a few elements were in the dark. My tool of choice was not a lovely C100, rather a fabulous little GH4 for a whole host of reasons. As there were elements in the dark, I was bracing myself for lots of noise but this was not an issue at all.

I have heard so much about noise in low-light situations that I can't believe the GH4 is relatively noiseless given the parameters I am working within. Am I just hallucinating, have I become blind, is my definition of 'noiseless' different from everyone else? I'm really concerned I'm going insane! What are your thoughts on the dark elements, all shot on a GH4?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTJmtTHc31U
 
It's noisy in low light and HIGH ISO. Just guessing but doesn't look like you jacked up the ISO too much on this. The noise starts to get really bad around 1600 ISO. Also, using idynamic and too much noise reduction in addition to high ISO can make things really muddy and ugly.
 
Up until 1600 or so it's pretty hard to even tell a difference between those two cameras. One of the reasons I stick with a GH4 kit as my primary, despite people questioning and wondering if I need to rent a C100 as an upgrade.
 
Agafilm said:
Up until 1600 or so it's pretty hard to even tell a difference between those two cameras. One of the reasons I stick with a GH4 kit as my primary, despite people questioning and wondering if I need to rent a C100 as an upgrade.
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That's very interesting because I have a C100 kicking around which I love for different reasons but can't tear myself away from the GH4. It's just such a damn good camera.

What I'm concerned about is my 'eye' is letting me down. I'm looking at the shoot which clearly has low light elements but can't see the noise issue which I see spoken about on this forum so often, even at native ISO. Is it possible the GH4 low-light noise does not exist? Am I inadvertently doing something which negates the GH4's low-light ISO issues which are so frequently written about?

My biggest concern is my eye just not good enough and there is noise that I'm just not seeing. That I'm just unable to see what is obvious. I'm genuinely concerned!
 
Is it just me or am I missing the low light elements? Shooting with a giant window letting in daylight is hardly low light even on a cloudy day. Take it in a room with no windows with only ambient light then you have low light.
 
I also don't consider this low light shooting because you have a giant nuclear fusion device lighting your scene. You may have under exposed areas but that means you have a lot of contrast in the scene and not low light.

People crap on the Gh4 a lot more than it really deserves. Sure it isn't a FF camera but it also isn't a 1/3" camera. It really is above average in low light class and not a bottom feeder like some want to make it out to be. Sensor size isn't always a sure thing either. Take many super 35mm cameras for example like the Red Epic. That thing is bad in low light and the GH4 spanks it and many of the Blackmagic Design cameras when it comes to low light. Considering how many features, TV spots and music videos shot on the RED Epic I don't think we can call it a bad camera. The GH4 is not a bad low light camera either. Combine the GH4 and a Speed Booster XL and you basically do have a super 35mm camera for less than $2,000.
 
The only problems you'll see will happen if you try to bring the details out of your shadow areas. Do it more than a stop, and you'll quickly find out why some of those cinema cameras cost more. But I almost never have to do that. You just have to be careful with your lens and lighting choices. I'm actually going to be doing some tests soon to shoot fire dancers at night, and I have no intention of switching cameras to do it.
 
Agafilm said:
The only problems you'll see will happen if you try to bring the details out of your shadow areas. Do it more than a stop, and you'll quickly find out why some of those cinema cameras cost more. But I almost never have to do that. You just have to be careful with your lens and lighting choices. I'm actually going to be doing some tests soon to shoot fire dancers at night, and I have no intention of switching cameras to do it.
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Thats what v-log and Leeming LUT are for. Shoot the shadows with more detail and bring them down in post which reduces noise from doing the opposite.
 
Thomas Smet said:
I also don't consider this low light shooting because you have a giant nuclear fusion device lighting your scene. You may have under exposed areas but that means you have a lot of contrast in the scene and not low light.

People crap on the Gh4 a lot more than it really deserves. Sure it isn't a FF camera but it also isn't a 1/3" camera. It really is above average in low light class and not a bottom feeder like some want to make it out to be. Sensor size isn't always a sure thing either. Take many super 35mm cameras for example like the Red Epic. That thing is bad in low light and the GH4 spanks it and many of the Blackmagic Design cameras when it comes to low light. Considering how many features, TV spots and music videos shot on the RED Epic I don't think we can call it a bad camera. The GH4 is not a bad low light camera either. Combine the GH4 and a Speed Booster XL and you basically do have a super 35mm camera for less than $2,000.
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You made some good points. I guess it depends on the definition of low light. Had 3 800w redcaps (Protons) and 3 LEDs blasting out light in order to create the silhouette. Maybe it isn't low light, rather that although the silhouettes are dark, they are not shot in low light.

Darkness and low light aren't necessarily the same thing, I guess.
 
Low light is low light but I wonder why GH4 has noise an d roughness even at iso200. It is very hard to get clean surfaces like sky.
 
I figured the GH4 noise issue at iso 200. It is not noise, it is video processing/compression rubbish. Deband filter makes my GH4 noisy iso200 clips super clean and still sharp.
 
visceralpsyche said:
If you see banding, just add some fine noise to help break up the individual bands. No need for filters etc.

HTH

Paul :)
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It is not just banding. It is the roughness combined of sensor noise and video processing rubbish. GH4 4k video is not clean. When I use deband filter all the noise and roughness go away and the look is like super clean full frame or JPG from RAW. It is like 10bit image. It adds the missing tones in right places.

If you fight against banding, noise and roughness by adding more noise the result is not clean.

I dont know exactly how the debanding filter works. It is different than normal blur filters which makes banding even worse. It somehow repairs broken gradients and makes them super smooth and still it can maintain image details. It is like a miracle. Finally after many years I have solved the GH rough image issue.
 
Vesku said:
When I use deband filter all the noise and roughness go away and the look is like super clean full frame or JPG from RAW. It is like 10bit image. It adds the missing tones in right places.
/QUOTE]
Could you show us an example?
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rsbush said:
Vesku said:
When I use deband filter all the noise and roughness go away and the look is like super clean full frame or JPG from RAW. It is like 10bit image. It adds the missing tones in right places.
/QUOTE]
Could you show us an example?
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It is difficult to demonstrate because it is a real time player filter. Frame samples are maybe not telling the whole truth about the look of playing video.
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