Alexa Not-so-MINI

I bought a used Sony 1-542-296 for a small XLR shotgun mic. Very similar to the mics that came with EX1, etc. It's no top end mic, but it's quite compact and has decent directionality & response. More than good enough for scratch and works decent for run & gun in a pinch. You can get them on eBay for like $50-70.
 
Ebrahim Saadawi said:
This could have been a deadly camera. But the designed is clearly crippled (or let's say re-routed) to make it fit into another use group vs the Alexa. This camera could have had a small 3"/4"/5" LCD folded in the body on top and a side handle and a couple of XLRs, voila, a handheld alexa with all the benefits but in more of a C300/Epic/Weapon shape. These omissions are clearly strategic for their line-up sales.
Click to expand...

That would imply the Amira is wasting space and I dont think that is the case esp. when it comes to dissipating heat, the structural needs for a commercially rugged shoulder mount system, battery support, etc.. Arri wouldnt build something made to do handlend without beefing it way up. The mini would also need a chunk of audio circuits added, support structure for that LCD, XLR infrastructure and so on... it would get bigger and heavier. It would be great but to say they set out to cripple it (like the Sony F3 was without the s-log at first) is a little much I think. The only thing other than size the Mini has that the Amira doesnt have, that I would love, is the 4:3 sensor for doing anamorphic if wanted. That is damn cool.
 
CharlesPapert said:
I don't agree on that one, Sam. A wider camera, assuming proper distribution of masses inside (which the Mini appears to), will be more stable on the shoulder than a skinnier body. Less inclination to roll (yaw). One of the worst setups was the original dockable Betacams, which were tragically tall and slender. Panaflexes were great in this regard as they were "meatballs" with a low CG (which inspired the form factor of the Genesis and then the F35).
Click to expand...

Charles here is my thinking in a little more depth.

We must break the process apart, first consider a 'point load' where the entire mass of the camera is loading the body at a single point.

Now humans like to be centred and operate well for long hours when they are not twisting their spine by an carrying an 'offset point load'. The african woman takes her point load directly above her spine by carrying her water casket on her head. The vietnamese man carries his two bags of rice on a stick which centres in the middle, again the point load is directly above his spine. These people have done this for centuries, don't and cant retire early, don't moan about crocked backs and cant afford weekly physio. We should not ignore them.

Now (any) conventionally formed camera on the shoulder places the point load way off from the spine centre line.. and the closer you can get that point in towards the spine the less stressed your day will be. Not only will that lengthen the career of the operator but also make his shots better.

The Amera scores really high on keeping the point load close to the spine.

Ok. Moving forward fromthe point load we must consder the actual form of the camera, and consider it to be balanced on a 3 axis gimbal joint (the shoulder), and start to consider how that camera behaves once the operator accelerates the position of the gimbal.. aka moves. Let us call this the gimbal load

Now considering the gimbal load all your comments come in to (very valid) play, we are well aware that as we accelerate sidewards if the camera CofM is (further) above the gimbal the yaw acceleration is increased with the inverse square law, which translates as you say to tall cameras lose horizon. As we acceelerate for or aft the camera will want to look up or down. and of course the whole thing wants to flip so the CofM is hanging under the 'gimbal' - fall off the shoulder!

So the next consideration is getting the camera cofm low to the gimbal (we are balancing a steadicam with no sled here!)

When building the camera we must do all we can to lower that centre of mass.. which is why I usually mount my brick battery under my camera rails - actually below my shoulder - the very opposite that you see for example on the Cion where the brick is placed high.. stupid.

Other things to lower the camera mass - without adding mass? Mainly stacking not too much sh_t (adapter plates et al) under the camera and above the shoulder pad.

The final element of the system is rotational inertia, (the two bags of rice are much more stable than the pot of water) .. here we see that a long camera gains pan an tilt inertia a huge aid to the operator.

So. Back to the MINI and the Amera.

Amera. better positioned point load
Amera. CofM height - well id say about evens vs the Mini , but arri Amera shoulder pad is very very thin and low, doing as much as possible to keep the CofM low, the inbuilt dove plate milled into the bottom the Amera aids this
Amera. Rotational inertia. Being twice as long.. it has four times more RI than the MINI.

Is the Amira exceptionally well designed for shoulder work?.. Id say it is very good but not perfect, simply any mass above the lens should be redistributed lower and the shoulder pad should be carve further into the camera body. I could of course do better :)

I have just shot a doc mainly on the shoulder for seven days running, doing that again Id certainly go for the Amera over the Mini.

In reality I used my FS7 on a rig which I redesigned after being hugely impressed when shouldering the Amria.

S
 
Last edited:
VinceinLA said:
Doesn't it sound really "tinny"? (I heard a sound guy use that word.)
Click to expand...

Quite the opposite from my non-sound guy ears - i think it sounds great, and every sound person I know has thought very highly of it. Ambient is a company that takes their stuff seriously, and i think this mic was no exception.
 
Ebrahim Saadawi said:
This could have been a deadly camera. But the designed is clearly crippled (or let's say re-routed) to make it fit into another use group vs the Alexa. This camera could have had a small 3"/4"/5" LCD folded in the body on top and a side handle and a couple of XLRs
Click to expand...

Sounds like you just described the URSA Mini to be honest. If it's 14-15 stops as we hope, that camera will be quite appealing.
 
Sam, thanks for that lengthy explanation, I think we are probably saying the same thing for the most part.
What I see as appealing about the Mini is that it is a blank slate that can be configured in many ways. It may be half the length of the Amira, but that's good, because of course it can be stripped down and stuffed into a tight spot. No reason it can't (and would be) built out longer for shoulder-mounted work, right to the sweet spot.

I could personally envision a 3rd party dock/cradle for the camera that would provide a solid battery mount, XLR's, all the things that are missing etc. while expanding its form factor into the "correct" one. A side panel similar to the Alexa's would be fantastic, to make quick settings changes. This would make the Mini a much more desirable B camera as it would have the physical functionality of its big brothers, but when you needed to go to Steadicam/gimbal/specialty application where size and weight are important, you can pop it out and use it bare. Smaller can always go bigger, as long as it is an intelligent version of bigger.
 
The two best cameras I have used for handheld are the F900 and the Moviecam SL. The 416 I have heard is also brilliant on the shoulder, as are Aatons but I have no experience of them.
 
CharlesPapert said:
Sam, thanks for that lengthy explanation, I think we are probably saying the same thing for the most part.
What I see as appealing about the Mini is that it is a blank slate that can be configured in many ways. It may be half the length of the Amira, but that's good, because of course it can be stripped down and stuffed into a tight spot. No reason it can't (and would be) built out longer for shoulder-mounted work, right to the sweet spot.

I could personally envision a 3rd party dock/cradle for the camera that would provide a solid battery mount, XLR's, all the things that are missing etc. while expanding its form factor into the "correct" one. A side panel similar to the Alexa's would be fantastic, to make quick settings changes. This would make the Mini a much more desirable B camera as it would have the physical functionality of its big brothers, but when you needed to go to Steadicam/gimbal/specialty application where size and weight are important, you can pop it out and use it bare. Smaller can always go bigger, as long as it is an intelligent version of bigger.
Click to expand...

Of course we agree. I like the camera head concept and building it up.

Having had a decent play with them both I would certainly pick the amera for more specialised shoulder mount situations. I think it has an edge compared to a rigged camera. That edge may not be apparent for the odd shoulder shot as part of a drama, but for pure doco (I did a 45min take the other day of a live performance) that edge is most certainly there.. and I think it is there because it is thin!

Honestly I shouldered the thing, thought it was great, but could not understand why. I had to walk around the booth a few times until it came to me.

S
 
VinceinLA said:
That would imply the Amira is wasting space and I dont think that is the case esp. when it comes to dissipating heat, the structural needs for a commercially rugged shoulder mount system, battery support, etc.. Arri wouldnt build something made to do handlend without beefing it way up. The mini would also need a chunk of audio circuits added, support structure for that LCD, XLR infrastructure and so on... it would get bigger and heavier. It would be great but to say they set out to cripple it (like the Sony F3 was without the s-log at first) is a little much I think. The only thing other than size the Mini has that the Amira doesnt have, that I would love, is the 4:3 sensor for doing anamorphic if wanted. That is damn cool.
Click to expand...

Don't agree not at all. an LCD is on an panasonic GM1, it doesn't need neither space nor weight nor cost, just a simple plain old LCD that every single camera on the market has. Wouldn't add more than 100 grams and 100 dollars if they go for a very decent one! and could have been implemented very easily without adding bulk or weight, just decent Zoom H1 preamps quality and a 3.5mm jack or one XLR jack. And a side grip should have been an option. With these simple solution it would turn it into a real complete production camera, that has less features than a full fledged Alexa but smaller and lighter and modular.

LCD and an optional Side grip were must haves. Very apparent they wanted it to be limited to drone and POV and B-cam work for the alexa and not take it's place on large productions.

A pocket camera has an HD 3" LCD + Audio recording for scratch track under 200 (camera and sensor and processor included).

They should offer integrated solutions for it, 1- An integrated LCD to shoot with the damn thing, 2- A grip and top handle to hold the damn thing, 3- At least scratch audio of decent quality, Each add on can be 2000-3000$ but they'll open up so many opportunities for the Alexa Mini applications. Actually an integrated LCD on top + handle/grip + audio would make it a direct competitior to the Red epic/weapon and C300/500 in size and features and form, but with an alexa image, wouldn't they be snatched from rental houses more than any other model out there for mid-high end productions? I think it would. They clearly can make an alexa at this size so do it to the full extent not to 90% and stop.

Amira and Alexa XT/studio have extremely large components and features that would make their size viable and their position viable in the market. This could have just been a new handheld stripped down alexa, not a drone alexa.
 
JMtheDP said:
The two best cameras I have used for handheld are the F900 and the Moviecam SL. The 416 I have heard is also brilliant on the shoulder, as are Aatons but I have no experience of them.
Click to expand...

Did you swap out the shoulder pad on the F900? The body was basically a DigiBeta painted black, but I don't think Sony ever really wanted anyone to shoot with it on the shoulder. The shoulder pad on all the units I ever used(I spent a lot of time with them in the early-mid '00's) was as hard as a rock. My favorite shoulder mount camera is still my Panny 2700(P2 Vari).
 
To me a digibeta camera is the definition of a shoulder mount camera though - I mean, it even has a speaker where your ear goes for monitoring!

i never changed the pad out, maybe I have a soft shoulder. The f900 is light compared to most cameras we talk about here
 
I was a bit confused when I saw the Alexa Mini because it somehow seemed to me they already had a mini in the Alexa-M. And I always thought the M stood for mini. Although I know it has a different feature set.
But my impression is that the Alexa Mini cube is really not that much smaller than the F35 cube without EVF and IF box. But I never compared them side by side.
 
Aaveum

It would be a little smaller than the F35's cube, it is large than the F55's basic housing. Obviously it can record internally which the F35 certainly can't.

Nobody liked the M.
 
Sure the F35 can't recorder internally. But how much weight and bulk something like a Hyperdeck really adds? Or even smaller, one of the Samurai/Ninja/Blade recorders, whichever is the smallest. Even the 7Q really.

For being just a little smaller than the F35 cube it got quite a bit of praise for being "Mini".
 
eddavid said:
It looks pretty small to me - the one on the left - I am excited to own it after 3 years once it drops in price to under 10k. Until then I am excited to rent it or the Amira on shoots or keep trucking with my F35!
Click to expand...

You think it will drop down in price to under $10k in just three years? I'd think the Arri Alexa brand name will help keep its price high.

But if it will get that cheap... I'm very excited about that thought of owning one in 3yrs from today! :-D ;-)

My cameras:
2012/2013 = Panasonic GH1
2014 = BMPCC / Nikon D5200
2015 = Sony PMW-F3
2016/2017 = URSA Mini 4.6K
2018 = Arri Alexa Mini!!!! :-D

Edit: also... hello again! I'm the guy who started the thread over on EOSHD about the F3 in 2015 :-) Recognise you from the trailer you shared.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top