AJA introduces Cion 4K camera $8,995!

Erik Naso said:
Sure they have. but they say its S35 not APS-C. I just think it’s a strange thing thats all for a cinema camera to refer to it’s sense as APS-C just seems odd.
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Well, it's technically not S35. It's an off-the-shelf APS-C sensor, which has a 3:2 aspect ratio and will give smaller than S35 capture area when windowed for video. The rumor is that the Cion is using the same sensor as the BMPC, and tech specs seems to support the theory - but this is just a rumor so far.

S35 dimensions are 24.9 x 14mm, while the Cion & BMPC active sensor dimensions are 22.5 x 11.9mm & 21.12 x 11.88mm, respectively. The larger horizontal area on the Cion are due to it being able to shoot DCI 4K, while the BMPC maxes out at UHD resolutions.

Basically, Blackmagic is fudging a little while AJA is being a bit more honest about what's inside.
 
cowpunk52 said:
The rumor is that the Cion is using the same sensor as the BMPC, and tech specs seems to support the theory - but this is just a rumor so far.
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It may be a rumor, but it seems a virtual certainty. The specs all jibe, and they both have global shutters. The only commodity sensor that matches is the CMOSIS CMV12000.
 
It's odd that they don't offer any control features, waveform monitor, spot meter, Focus assist. Perhaps they are laying those off to the display or EVF which is fine, especially to deliver value and keep the price down. They also don't talk about gammas or slog or color level control or detail level or coring or pedestal. I think they mention white balance. Not adding NDs and being all PL about the mount is a miss marketing wise but not a show stopper for me as long as opitek or mtf or novoflex or somebody else make a mount. It's a good price. If the images are good, the color management is reasonable and the highlights aren't awful, I'd buy one.
 
This cam looks like it's headed in the right direction and I love so much about it, but at the price we're almost into scarlet territory. Lets say another 3 thousand for media and evf/lcd, and even without counting batteries we're at 12K. Living in L.A., despite my personal preference's and the "red look", they are the most sought after cams from what I've seen for low budget filmmakers. And producers are constantly asking for red, so whether I like it or not, it becomes a selling point. What makes me look at this camera instead? Frame rates are higher on red and DR reads higher on paper... I do love the global shutter and more organic feel I've seen from this sensor (assuming it's the same one as the BMC4k), but are there any other points I'm missing here? If I was just shooting personal projects, I'd be looking hard at the CION, but since I work for money, it seems a scarlet would be a better route.

Thoughts?
 
The Cion looks easier. Its one-piece, shoulderable body looks more ergonomic, and Prores is more editonic. How much is a fully kitted Scarlet?

If reviewers uncover no gotchas, I think it would be a good deal, especially for day-to-day shooters. AJA Pak media is about $1,500 for two 256-GB cartridges, which I think would be about five hours of HD. The viewfinder that to me looks most like the one in their brochure is about $1,000. A Switronix mount, charger, and couple batteries should be about another $1,000 or so (Switronix is still good right? I remember reading years ago that it was good bang for your buck.)
 
Yeah, I get a lot of people wanting Scarlet here as well. I'm interested in the Cion, but you're right, the Scarlet is close when you kit one of these out. I don't know where to draw the line. FS700 with 7Q comes in here also. There's a lot to know about this camera before I pull the trigger but at first glance, she's a looker ;)
 
I will never buy another video camera without built in ND filters. Besides the inconvenience of the work around, the work around ends up being just as expensive as the probable manufacturer's cost of built in ND filters.
 
ryan brown said:
This cam looks like it's headed in the right direction and I love so much about it, but at the price we're almost into scarlet territory. Lets say another 3 thousand for media and evf/lcd, and even without counting batteries we're at 12K. Living in L.A., despite my personal preference's and the "red look", they are the most sought after cams from what I've seen for low budget filmmakers. And producers are constantly asking for red, so whether I like it or not, it becomes a selling point. What makes me look at this camera instead? Frame rates are higher on red and DR reads higher on paper... I do love the global shutter and more organic feel I've seen from this sensor (assuming it's the same one as the BMC4k), but are there any other points I'm missing here? If I was just shooting personal projects, I'd be looking hard at the CION, but since I work for money, it seems a scarlet would be a better route.

Thoughts?
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Or a used Red one MX - Yes. Much better IQ, better everything.
 
All those different varieties of Prores to internal media make workflow much more flexible for a lot of work and may be more desirable than a Red One MX. We know what the Red One MX IQ is but we still don't know what the Cion images will be like.
 
Robert Ruffo said:
Or a used Red one MX - Yes. Much better IQ, better everything.
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hscully said:
All those different varieties of Prores to internal media make workflow much more flexible for a lot of work and may be more desirable than a Red One MX. We know what the Red One MX IQ is but we still don't know what the Cion images will be like.
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The camera also has global shutter, full sensor 60 fps in camera recording, the capability of up to 120 fps raw output with an external recorder and a much lighter kitted weight. And all of this comes from a manufacturer with a rock solid rep for building quality gear and standing behind it. This of course with the caveat of not knowing what the final IQ will be like.
 
Don't forget the CION itself does not record RAW, rather it will provide RAW over the 4 3G-SDI ports in what's called AJA RAW and you can bet something like an AJA 4K recorder will be needed to support it unless of course Convergent Designs (competitor to AJA) will be granted to support AJA RAW with the Odyssey 7Q (highly doubtful). The last price I remember for the AJA 4K Ki Pro was around $4000 plus media, and so far there is no telling if the Ki Pro will support the CION RAW or it will need a new AJA 4k RAW recorder.

Just remember shooting in ProRes internally is not the same as shooting "RAW" so expect at least 1 stop less in dynamic range if shooting internally and let us hope they incorporate some use of gammas or log for the internal recordings.

So for what the overall cost might end up being, I too would likely suggest or recommend the RED Scarlet instead.
 
I just got back from seeing more images from this camera and I really like what their going for here. It's really rich with deep blacks. The color looks beautiful and the skin tones were really honest and clean. They're going for a look that's clean but not too hard edged. It reminded me of film from the 90s. It seems to have a lot of range. Good detail in the shadows while holding details in sunny clouds with blue sky. When it did blow out it was clean and white. I'm glad I went. It's just my impression but what I saw I really liked. It's a very pleasing image and they're still dialing it in.

They will have various gammas and and they are developing "extended" settings there to stretch the highlight handling.

They said that the RAW would be open to other manufacturers. It did sound like it would be pretty expensive at first and on camera solutions are still based on other recorders (I didn't get the manufacturer) so RAW is still coming together but it's an option. I was really eavesdropping on someone else talking about RAW so I didn't get all of it. On camera RAW to their media isn't an option because of bandwidth even in future because of the media itself.

They are subsampling for the 2K and they said they aren't having any troubles with artifacts.

I got to hold it on my shoulder. With a Zeiss CP and FF my hand took a little weight up front but not all that much. Picking it up by itself it is surprisingly light.

It's a cool camera. I'm looking forward to finding out more but so far so good.
 
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Anyone else have a hankering for this camera? If you don't right now, once you see more images, I think you might.
 
Darren Levine said:
too many cameras....

even more too many 'pro' shooters
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Yeah, I'm not even a pro yet and I feel like there are too many "pro shooters" out there. It's funny how tech advances allow everyone with enough money to pretend they're a pro for a while, because, you know, 4K and all. I miss the days when there was only one pro shooter. His name was Edison and his 4K camera was the Kinetoscope attached to the Black Maria. If there was an NAB back then it would just be him and his crew, plus maybe the Lumière brothers and Le Prince : )
 
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