AJA CION external recorders available supporting 4 x 3g-sdi?

cckid

cckid

Well-known member
Hellou everyone,

it was an exciting year at NAB and AJA CION definitely seems like a very interesting camera. For our work we need the abililty to record 100 fps and up. However AJA CION can't do it internally and needs some kind of external recorder that supports the 4x 3g-sdi outputs. Does anyone know will the odyssey 7q recorder be able to support that, and enable us to record the 120fps from AJA CION...or for that fact will the ATOMOS SHOGUN be an even better option? Did AJA announced any future upgrades on their ability to records frames higher than 60fps internally? If anyone has any additional info on this subject please let us know....

best regards

Drazen
 
I talked to one of the Convergent Design tech guys at their booth at NAB. He said he was about to walk over to the Aja booth and broach the topic of CD support for Aja raw output. We'll see what happens.
 
Unless I'm missing something Dan had confirmed to me not too long ago that 7Q can record from 4x 3G-SDI with the F55 so I gotta imagine CION would be no problem, but Mitch is your man to confirm.
 
Mitch wrote:

Mitch Gross
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Mitch Gross
Director of Communications
Convergent-Design
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Sorry, but that wasn't a conversation that I had with Convergent Design staff at NAB. I had a nice conversation with one of the Convergent Design demo artists one morning before the show opened, but nothing beyond that. I'd like to know who you had a conversation with at NAB at AJA because they might have spoken out of turn. I would be the point of contact for CION and third-party support. Please feel free to contact me offlist if you'd like Mitch.

Thanks,
Jon Thorn
Senior Product Manager
AJA Video Systems
 
Glad to see these two great companies coming together at dvxuser :-)

It's been 2 months, is there any information that can be divulged about Convergent Design support for the CION? Or not quite yet?...
 
Nothing to be stated publicly at this time. As the CION has not yet shipped, such statements would be academic for the moment anyway.
 
Convergent Design and AJA are working together on this front. The Odyssey7Q and Odyssey7Q+ can record ProRes 422 (HQ) from the CION TODAY in HD/2K/UHD/4K. That's HD/2K in 60p and UHD/4K in 30p, all via SDI (7Q & 7Q+) or HDMI (7Q+ only). RAW integration is in development.
 
So the camera can shoot internal 4K 60p in ProRes422 at 60p, and output 4K raw at 120p yet this feature can't be utilised until Q7 can work the AJA raw format, which is unknown when, did I get this correctly?
 
CION can record to on-board media at up to 4K 30fps in Apple ProRes 444 or 60fps in Apple ProRes 422. 120 fps raw may be output via the 4x main 3G-SDI outputs; it is not possible to record 120fps raw to on-board media due to the extremely high bandwidth requirements.

At this time, the 4K 120fps raw output of CION is supported by the AJA Corvid Ultra hardware and AJA TruZoom software combination. This is the combination that has been used at several major sporting events - including the MLB All Star Game. To learn more about Corvid Ultra and TruZoom, visit:
https://www.aja.com/en/products/developer/corvid-ultra#features

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For CION raw output of 4K at up to 30fps, the Thunderbolt connection may be used along with an appropriately configured computer and fast disk array.

Finally, AJA believes in open standards. So not only does CION use industry standard connectors throughout the design, AJA also offers development information to third-parties interested in providing support for CION's raw output via SDI.

I hope this information is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Senior Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
 
Ebrahim Saadawi said:
So the camera can shoot internal 4K 60p in ProRes422 at 60p, and output 4K raw at 120p yet this feature can't be utilised until Q7 can work the AJA raw format, which is unknown when, did I get this correctly?
Click to expand...
You are correct that the Odyssey7Q does not currently support the RAW signal from the CION camera. We are working with AJA on this but are offering no promises or schedule.
 
Hi Jon and Mitch,

I'm looking to graduate from DSLR, so my next purchase will be my first cinema style camera. I just wanted to share what my needs are, and I hope I can convince both of you that the Odyssey 7q and the Cion are a perfect match if they are fully functional together.

The features I want are a 4k sensor, high frame rate, low light capability, global shutter, and raw recording. Just a few years ago, I would've been called crazy for asking all that in a camera priced near $10k. But today, it doesn't seem that far fetched anymore. I looked at the FS700 for a long time, but the CMOS and color science of that camera were a real turn off, not to mention Sony's hilarious raw solution, hilarious in price and form. But when the 7Q came out, I took a serious look at the FS700 again. The 7Q really makes it a whole new camera, not to mention the beautiful monitor functions. But just as I was nearing my purchase, Sony released the FS7, with lots of great features, but still the CMOS... and now you can't get the raw signal out without buying another add on unit... in addition to the IFR5 interface unit... and it's the same unwieldy raw solution. Sometimes I think Sony treats its customers like children. So despite some of the FS7's nice features, the F5 sensor, etc, it didn't make sense to me to pay another $2k for the raw signal... and since what I'm most looking for is raw, the only thing distinguishing the FS7 and FS700 for my purposes was the color science. Adding the prores and pro connectivity on the XDCA unit are nice, but it puts the camera at $10k, not including a raw recorder... and it doesn't put a whole lot of distance between the FS7 and F5, personally I look at them as different versions of the same camera.

So then I compared the FS7/700 solution against the Cion. Aside from the low light capability, it's basically everything I wanted, at an unbelievable price *if* I can get a high frame rate 4k raw signal out. The Corvid solution for 120fps 4k raw is comparable to Sony's, great performance, but it's just not practical. Having the 7Q right on the camera, functioning as both a monitor and a recorder is an unbelievable utility, for price, maneuverability, clutter reduction. It just makes setup and shooting a much easier, pleasurable experience. And unlike the FS7, the prores and professional connectivity are all onboard the Cion. So all the selling points of the Cion are really amazing and it's plain incredible to have such a camera under $10k, and frankly it's more handsome than the FS7. Giving it the succinct solution of having HFR raw on the 7Q monitor would set that combination above every other solution. I've juggled all the combinations, from the RED Scarlet, to the Ursa, the A7S with the Shogun, etc... and the no-contest BEST solution I end up at for performance/cost is the Cion and the 7Q, if the 7Q can perform everything just as it does for the FS700. The capability of the Cion and the 7Q, fully functional together, is mind blowing for the cost, the quality, and convenience. For that combination, the next tier of cameras that put up competition is the Dragon/F55/Amira. And I know I'm not the only DSLR guy thinking that. So I hope you guys can work it out, give this awesome capability to us smaller guys, and give us the chance to compete against the bigger guys.
 
Thanks for the perspective and enthusiasm. Convergent Design is working with AJA to enable the recording of the RAW signal from the CION onto the Odyssey7Q. We agree that it can be a powerful combination and look forward to offering it to clients. It is an active project at this time.
 
Hi Mitch, I was wondering how this development is coming along please? I'm planning on using one of our 7Q's with the CION on an upcoming project @ 4k 120fps, if it's possible.

Loving the new FW by the way! ProRes in all formats from the FS700, BOOM!
 
CION RAW support is in development but I cannot provide any timetable. While we may support many aspects of this camera, I cannot promise that we would be able to support 4K120p. That's a considerable about of data to process so quickly. Note that on the FS700 while we do offer 4K120p burst support, that burst is actually captured in the camera memory buffer and then fed to the Odyssey at a much lower speed.
 
Hi Mitch, Thanks for the reply. Ah yes, that's a good point. I was thinking "if they can do it for the FS700, they can do it for the CION." But that would mean you'd need to be able to take 2k at 480fps. Yeah that's kinda crazy.

OK, I might have to rethink if it's the right camera for this project. Just not that keen on the URSA and the Epic isn't great in lowlight. Hmm...
 
Mitch Gross said:
CION RAW support is in development but I cannot provide any timetable. While we may support many aspects of this camera, I cannot promise that we would be able to support 4K120p. That's a considerable about of data to process so quickly. Note that on the FS700 while we do offer 4K120p burst support, that burst is actually captured in the camera memory buffer and then fed to the Odyssey at a much lower speed.
Click to expand...

Hi Mitch:
So what ended up happening? Did the 7Q end up supporting raw sdi out from the Cion? Even at low frame rates?
 
Nope. There were so few cameras sold it wasn't worth the development costs. And there were a bunch of things CD asked AJA to do for proper recording that were never implemented on the camera.
 
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