AG-DVX200 4K Large-Sensor Handheld Camcorder

TFilipiak said:
Not sure why the DVX200 is being compared to the Sony FS7(???)
The FS5 would probably be a better comparison. It's closer in price, size and recording media.
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But even then, the FS5 is $1,400 USD more with no lens. Sometimes I really do think the DVX200 is just a X1000 with a 4/3 sensor and SDI. And more customization options. People need to remember that. It is, practically speaking, a much cheaper camera than folks give it credit for, with an expensive permanently attached lens. Remove the lens, and it probably goes for less than the $3,500 USD the JVC-LS300 is currently going for at B&H and a few other places. While comparisons to the AC160 make sense, even then, the AC160 was much more expensive at release (adjusted for inflation) with a smaller sensor.
 
TFilipiak said:
Not sure why the DVX200 is being compared to the Sony FS7(???)
The FS5 would probably be a better comparison. It's closer in price, size and recording media.
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Because people are complaining bitterly about it too. Nobody seems to complain about the FS7. (I mean, maybe they do and I just haven't seen it, but my impression is that FS7 owners are quite happy with it).
 
Mike Harvey said:
But doesn't the PX270 lens ramp as well? Wouldn't it still remain ~-1.5 if the PX270 ramped at a comparable rate?
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Yes, it ramps, pretty much every lens ramps.

In terms of brightness, the PX270 can be on par with the DVX200, but when a bit of gain enters the picture the DVX200 produces a far superior picture. In terms of image quality at a given low light level, the DVX200 wins easily in the comparisons I've done.
 
When I set each camera next to each other and ran slowly through the zoom range the DVX200 had a much more noticeable darkening of the frame. Given that the zoom range is shorter on the DVX200 it would seem that this behavior would come into play quite often unless you were using the camera like a cinema camera. Given what HardDrive mentioned above, it would seem better imho to have a shorter range with more usability (brighter) than a longer range which needs more gain. If you need more reach then there are better options. Once the f-stops get larger then the concept of a large sensor goes away somewhat. When I look at the lenses used most often on interchangeable large sensor cameras the large majority are mainly only up to 200mm FF eq. The 13x lens which is bit slower was used to prove the concept but I think it puts the camera into the grey area. The idea of a powered zoom is wonderful but it can't depart from how we need the tools to work. The PX270 just barely covers most all situations I have come across with only needing 6db at most. The DVX200 with a bright lens would be there and then some.
 
Barry_Green said:
Because people are complaining bitterly about it {the FS5} too. Nobody seems to complain about the FS7. (I mean, maybe they do and I just haven't seen it, but my impression is that FS7 owners are quite happy with it).
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Are there "bitter" complaints about the FS5? That's far from the impression I get. All I've heard are a few low level things (only two outputs at a time, no waveform display - just zebra and histogram) and some reports of codec issues, but even these seem to be pretty slight, and only at 4K and in very high ISO and with movement. The sort of ISO when most other cameras would be virtually unusable anyway! (See post 31 in the thread below: "Whatever processing they are applying in 4K recording internally limits it really to ISO 3200.")

That's documented in this thread - http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...and-noise-issues-when-recording-4K-internally . And let's note any issue only came to light just before the holidays, requires pretty strong pixel-peeping, and may be completely solvable with firmware anyway.

Barry_Green said:
I said it six months ago -- the DVX200 isn't an FS7. If what you want is an FS7, spend the $11,000 and get an FS7 with its 4.5:1 lens; the DVX200 is $4195. Almost 1/3 the price. I think it offers outstanding value at that price point, .......
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I may agree with the last point "...value at that price point...." but that is different to the point about whether it hits a sweet spot or falls between stools. (Which applies to cost as well as features, quality etc.) The DVX200 is marketed as "B camera to a Varicam" - but..... is that reasonable? I'd think users in that market would have little problem in paying somewhat more, and getting a bit more in exchange - codec compatability, for starters. Yet $4195 seems quite a lot for "enthusiast" users in todays market. So whilst it may well be value for money, that's what I mean about falling between stools.

And I don't know how it compares in other countries, but the comparison figures in the UK are much less than what you quote - an FS7 with kit lens is just over twice the price of the DVX200 - not 3x as much. (£6,080 for the FS7 - http://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/sony_pxw-fs7k against £2,798.93 for the DVX200 - http://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/panasonic_ag-dvx200 ) For a B camera to a high end A camera, I'd consider the extra £3,000 or so well worth it, compared to the cost of A camera and lenses for that.
 
3 1/2 out of 5 stars on B&H. Anyone willing to do a side by side comparison with the gh4 to prove they're wrong?

*looks like B&H removes bad reviews when rating gets below 4
 
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harddrive said:
And I don't know how it compares in other countries, but the comparison figures in the UK are much less than what you quote - an FS7 with kit lens is just over twice the price of the DVX200 - not 3x as much. (£6,080 for the FS7 - http://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/sony_pxw-fs7k against £2,798.93 for the DVX200 - http://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/panasonic_ag-dvx200 ) For a B camera to a high end A camera, I'd consider the extra £3,000 or so well worth it, compared to the cost of A camera and lenses for that.
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B&H currently lists the FS7 with that lens at about $10,500 USD, or roughly 2.5x the price. Maybe not 3x the price, but we are talking about well below $5k vs. above $10k USD.
 
Hi Guys,

My New Years wish is for the moderators to finally close this extremely long thread and now the camera has been out over two months, put this thread into the dvx 100/200 forum where we can start specific threads and not have to read all the various "dribble" from the complainers!

Oh, and by the way, I have now shot 20 dance concerts with the DVX200. After the 1st one, which was shot with original firmware and had real problems which I identified here, I have shot the last 19 with the new firmware and have been very pleased with the results. Some of those concerts were shot with two cameras, and the DVX 200 was matched successfully with our AG-AC160 (with a bit of work in post!). I will get to Barry's scene files and test them when I finish all my editing next month.

The camera has now paid for itself about three times over and I'm really pleased with it. One benefit I haven't seen mentioned before, is that you can shoot HD at much higher Bitrates than AVCHD, and that extra info can translate into much more detail on a stage wide shot, especially with 30 girls or so on stage. with a small amount of sharpening, this extra detail shows even after converting to DVD, and my clients have even noticed the better quality, so I'm a very happy camper!

Happy New year to everyone!

Cheers,

Vaughan Wood
 
pancam said:
..."and not have to read all the various "dribble" from the complainers!"
​these are not true?
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I think complaining is a useful function of board like DVXuser. From complaints made in this thread we've seen some firmware updates and other reported work being done by the factory to improve the camera.

"C'est le ton qui fait la musique."
 
Companies are so locked down these days that internet forums are the new "suggestion box". Sad but true. Try to call Panasonic and request a feature or report a problem. You will get someone just telling you to send it in for service. If you do send it in you will just get a short note about what the tech did or did not do. Next...

Barry is our only hope but they often do not listen to him either.
 
Bassman2003 said:
Companies are so locked down these days that internet forums are the new "suggestion box". Sad but true. Try to call Panasonic and request a feature or report a problem. You will get someone just telling you to send it in for service. If you do send it in you will just get a short note about what the tech did or did not do. Next...

Barry is our only hope but they often do not listen to him either.
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And Barry is in an impossible position, representing Pannasonic's positive accomplishments frequently seems to clash with being sympathetic to concerns of board members. He can't win. Giving in to one side destroys his credibility with the other. It is a balancing act. All he can do is point out how to use what is there, and ignore the loud grinding of teeth. I know that has frustrated me as a user, and I am sure that Panasonic huddles in terror when Barry tries to tell them that their baby is not perfect. So during this holiday season thank Barry for shouldering this burden.
 
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philiplipetz said:
And Barry is in an impossible position, representing Pannasonic's positive accomplishments frequently seems to clash with being sympathetic to concerns of board members. He can't win. Giving in to one side destroys his credibility with the other. It is a balancing act. All he can do is point out how to use what is there, and ignore the loud grinding of teeth. I know that has frustrated me as a user, and I am sure that Panasonic huddles in terror when Barry tries to tell them that their baby is not perfect. So during this holiday season thank Barry for shouldering this burden.
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I think that Barry is doing a hell of a job. Thanks Barry !!

And by the way: i own a dvx200, and i love this camera.
 
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