AG-DVX200 4K Large-Sensor Handheld Camcorder

greytail said:
Its kind of funny how we are not seeing any new reviews or comments in this thread from the so called reviewers who get their cameras on loan for free. Wonder why they are silent...." I also notice the sellers have mysteriously disappeared!
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When you get those kinds of perks the last thing that you want to do is give a review such as this camera deserves at this point in time. You simply review features and amenities while getting into the dirty parts. With no skin in the game like most of us on here, you get a little more unbiased review although it may be seen by "real" reviewers as slightly less educated. it would be hard for even someone buying a camera at a box store that gave this image quality not to see the issues that we are seeing.

I've followed the release of many new cameras which I have gone on to purchase and be happy with, mainly 35mm back in the day and more recently DSLR's. I originally thought that the lack of quality footage for the DVX200 was just because these weren't out in the wild yet. If this was a new Nikon or Canon, you would be tired of the footage that was being uploaded to You Tube that everyone and their brother was boasting about with their new cameras. We're not seeing anything like that with the DVX200. I really think it's just because nobody can get it. For now, if it does start to show up, it will be highly processed V-log footage.
 
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I'd be more hopeful if I could be assured that whatever is wrong with this camera can be fixed with more revisions of the software, but at this stage, we don't even know this for sure, which is very frustrating
 
mapper65 said:
When you get those kinds of perks the last thing that you want to do is give a review such as this camera deserves at this point in time. With no skin in the game like most of us on here, you get a little more unbiased review although it may be a "slightly" less educated. it would be hard for even someone buying a camera at a box store not to see the issues with the out of box image quality that everyone is witnessing.

I've followed the release of many new cameras which I have gone on to purchase and be happy with, mainly 35mm back in the day and more recently DSLR's. I originally thought that the lack of quality footage for the DVX200 was just because these weren't out in the wild yet. If this was a new Nikon or Canon, you would be tired of the footage that was being uploaded to You Tube that everyone and their brother was boasting about with their new camera. We're not seeing anything like that with the DVX200. I really think it's jus because nobody can get it. For now, if it does start to show up, it will be highly processed footage.
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Guess you are right. I wonder if the absense of footage also has to do with the camera still being so brand new, and I asume it has not been bought by many yet. Thats the problem with a camera like DVX200 compred to fx anew Prof Nikon DSLR. there are not many users out there, and maybe just a few who is in to all the hard stuff. The same goes for the GH4: very big community, hacking and luts etc. This will not happen to the same extend with cameras like the DVX200, and thats also why we are so depended of Panasonic and the few hardcore cinematographers/colourists who knows the drill.
 
I'm back and forth on this camera, wasn't going to go with another m4/3rds, but it has so many features that make it difficult to pass up for certain types of shoots. The more I think about it, the more props I give Panasonic for trying something new and different. Lets be real, this camera is in it's infancy in terms of usage from early adopters. This is a professional camera and it's intended for Pro use more or less, with that, it takes a fairly advanced skillset to understand how to dial it in, as does most pro cameras. Granted, it comes stock with scene files, but how many folks run with a factory scene file without tweaking it to their specific likes. I think it's way to early to dismiss it as being a failure which many folks are doing it seems. Doesn't it have new firmware? That in it's self tells me Panasonic is working on improving it's software. My only concern is if it doesn't sale as many units as expected will they abandon it all together? or will they go back to the drawing board and continue to work at making it better for the second release based from real user insight? I felt the AF100 was, and still is a good camera, however there was plenty room for improvement, many users would have loved to see an Af200 upgrade with improved performance as opposed to just a firmware upgrade, then discontinuing it. I think it's safe to say, had they made an Af200 with 4k, lots of people would have stuck with Panasonic, instead of jumping ship, and buying into either Black Magic, Sony or Canon because their confident they will continue to develop new cameras which they can continue to use their glass and accessories on. Take this post for what it is, I'm just saying give it some time to evolve, wait until more folks dial it in and create useful scene files and luts before jumping ship and writing it off so quickly. Has Berry Green even released his book for it yet? History has shown his books have always been huge in helping to learn and use new Panasonic cams. Were going to get in a loaner at work to test, I'm confident it will perform well, from there we will decide as to whether it's a good investment for our organization which is a small television studio.
 
maranfilms said:
I'm just saying give it some time to evolve, wait until more folks dial it in and create useful scene files and luts before jumping ship and writing it off so quickly. Has Berry Green even released his book for it yet? History has shown his books have always been huge in helping to learn and use new Panasonic cams. Were going to get in a loaner at work to test, I'm confident it will perform well, from there we will decide as to whether it's a good investment for our organization which is a small television studio.
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Your points are well taken but like many people, someone like me doesn't get someone to drop off a loaner. When a purchase is made, it comes right out of my pocket. I basically have 30 days to put it through its paces. The firmware upgrade came out a little while after I received the camera and I installed it. I was expecting it to solve the main issue that everyone was seeing. The advancements were minimal.

Now I'm down to either returning it, which I have less than a week to do or I keep it and roll the bones on four grand for a tool that either makes me money or sits around and costs me money and taints all future thoughts about Panasonic.

If I return it, I have to go through the process of deciding what I want all over again and I honestly didn't find anything as close to what the DVX200 had to offer from a feature standpoint. I'm very certain that my next endeavor won't be a Panasonic product of it comes down to that. If I had a scene file within the next few days that got me close to where I wanted to be, I would hold out quietly for up and coming advancements. I'm not sure that I see that happening but maybe someone will prove me wrong. I really hope that is the case.
 
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Have you started from scratch and worked on developing a scene file that suits your taste? A lot of it is just experimenting with the parameters, and it can be very time consuming, even taking weeks to dial in scene files for multiple situations. I understand your at the end of your 30 day's and your feeling lousy about the cam, but it's worth the effort if you already haven't tried making your own. Wouldn't be a bad idea to make a thread for nothing but sharing files. Best of luck!
 
maranfilms said:
Have you started from scratch and worked on developing a scene file that suits your taste? A lot of it is just experimenting with the parameters, and it can be very time consuming, even taking weeks to dial in scene files for multiple situations. I understand your at the end of your 30 day's and your feeling lousy about the cam, but it's worth the effort if you already haven't tried making your own. Wouldn't be a bad idea to make a thread for nothing but sharing files. Best of luck!
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I agree that's what's needs to be done to even find out if the camera can be used for semi R&G applications.

I've spent three or four hours modifying a scene but it seems like I get one thing close and then something else gets way out of whack. I've spent enough time that I question if the image sensor and controls are capable of working well enough together to paint the right image. I think if the image was closer out of the box the task of modifying a scene file would be fairly easy. If you take any of the existing cameras that I have used or owned up to buying the DVX200, out of the box I would say that they all came with a very decent starting point. This thing acts like they forgot to load something before it left the factory.
 
Just watched this new side-by-side comparison between firmware 1.00 and 1.25 on my 46" Samsung Smart tv and an iPad. I know it is graded, but if the noiselevel in this test is trustable, it looks like the latest firmware is more noisy than the old one from iso 1000 and above....but the blacklevel seems to be quite fifferent between the takes. Darkblack and more contrast in old and lighterdark in new. Some has stated, that if shooting vlog the noise is managable in post.
http://youtu.be/VyQeanyVofY
 
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maranfilms said:
Have you started from scratch and worked on developing a scene file that suits your taste? A lot of it is just experimenting with the parameters, and it can be very time consuming, even taking weeks to dial in scene files for multiple situations. I understand your at the end of your 30 day's and your feeling lousy about the cam, but it's worth the effort if you already haven't tried making your own. Wouldn't be a bad idea to make a thread for nothing but sharing files. Best of luck!
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If this is the case, why wasn't this in the marketing materials or any of the free reviews that never mentioned scene files or the strange omission of an exposure meter? I have not seen one review that raised any of these issues, making me wonder about the experience of the reviewers. If they had been raised, maybe I would not have swallowed the hype so easily. That is my fault...buyer beware as they say! I am one who will be forced to keep this camera, rather like taking a sugar coated pill that leaves you with a long stomach ache.
 
left DVX 200, right AG-AC 160 video still image is saved
https://www.dropbox.com/s/51utmvyvtj74lth/Still1108_00016.bmp?dl=0
 
If you remove the camera from the bag, I'll do the white balance, you have been good. As usual the DVX 100, SONY Z7, AG-AC 160 ...
No time to bother a lot of adjustment
Run and gun .... hihi
Cash back, cash back, cash back
 
Xoomtell
After initialization, all normally, Scene 1,
iso 500,
This point shows that a much better picture quality Pana G70
 
pancam said:
left Panasonic AG-AC 160, right DVX 200 video still image is saved
https://www.dropbox.com/s/as1hcv6lmhwkl7m/Still1108_00015.bmp?dl=0
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Like many others, this image illustrates that there's a problem, but doesn't provide enough information to help point a way toward a solution. What type of lights? What scene file, matrix, gamma, white balance setting and version of the firmware? I'm beginning to develop some suspicions about what contributes to the color issue, but it's hard to confirm without knowing what settings and conditions make it appear.

- Greg
 
There is problems no doubt. And the most interesting questions is: is there anything to do about it? Can a firmware update do the trick or are we at the limit of how far the hardware can go? And finally - will Panasonic do anything about it?
 
While all of this is going on I'm looking back at my options with Sony. This guy posted some sweet looking footage and a review of the FDR AX1 that was posted back in April of 2014. I would be more than happy getting footage like this right out of the gate. The DVX200 has been released over a year after this footage was posted and we've seen nothing like this out of the DVX200. He doesn't mention anything about grading in his blog post but I suspect that there had to be some.

Test Footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW2Xq1dS_x8

Review
http://heilbron.com/sony-4k-video-camera-fdr-ax1/

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm not sure that the DVX200's engine is capable of working with the image sensor to provide something like this. This guy does mention, "Thanks to Cliff Lavalee, who helped me understand the paint menu's pro settings". I take it that Cliff is with Sony Canada. I wonder if there is a Cliff Lavalee at Panasonic that's willing to speak up?
 
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