AG-DVX200 4K Large-Sensor Handheld Camcorder

joe 1008 said:
What were your settings?
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Where are your bucks for this.. ? ^^

I've made 2 Scene Files for better skin tones.. It's not perfect, just more neutral.

HD + Norm 1

Niv chroma : +5
Phase chroma : -5
Matrice : Norm 1
Master ped : -8
Mode gamma : HD
Black gamma : -4
Black gamma "type" : 3
Iris auto effect : -8
The rest : by default..

Cine Like D + Norm 1

Niv chroma : +8
Phase chroma : -6
Matrice : Norm 1
Color Correction : R-Mg sat -10 / Yl-Yl-R sat -15 / Yl-R-R sat -5
Master ped : -8
Mode gamma : Cine Like D
Black gamma : -5
Black gamma "type" : 3
Iris auto effect : -8
The rest : by default..

If you have good stuff at home, please let me know.
My personnal video monitoring system is rather limited.
 
Oh sorry I'm rather poor (that's why I'm interested in this camera after all ;)).
Your example stills were shot with HD + Norm1 or Cine Like D + Norm 1? And once dialed in these settings, did they work well under different conditions? I mean, are they reliable so you only have to do this once?
 
Le Chat Errant said:
After 6 hours of tweaking, things are slightly improved.
All my tests were made under natural light.
I'm a run N' gun rural video guy, if I wanna waste my time with artificial lights, charts and post, I shoot in V-Log + external recorder or I exhume my BMPCC.
With the DVX200, I need "fast-food" rushes and good flesh tones right now. My Panny 101 can do this !


Sorry for my pathetic face, basically I do this job to always stay off-camera...
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Thank you. I want a good baked in look too
 
joe 1008 said:
Oh sorry I'm rather poor (that's why I'm interested in this camera after all ;)).
Your example stills were shot with HD + Norm1 or Cine Like D + Norm 1? And once dialed in these settings, did they work well under different conditions? I mean, are they reliable so you only have to do this once?
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Same story ! ;)
If I recall correctly, original Scene File 1 VS Cine D + Norm 1.
But HD + Norm 1 is quite similar, just a (very little) bit more greenish with less highlight DR.
I don't know about their reliability, especially under artificial light..
I want a good baked in look too
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Don't hesitate to customize my settings.
Sonner or later, we gonna grab an Alexa killer look.. yep..
 
philiplipetz said:
One of the DPs Panasonic hired to do prerelease demo videos reports that the firmware 1.1 image is "much better." https://mobile.twitter.com/han_bangkok/status/659794799084486657
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At risk of saying I tried to tell you so... er... I told you so... that prerelease version was not representative of what the final camera would deliver. Substantial changes have been made to the imaging chain. More than any other camera that I've tracked the development of. And when Matt Allard said he had been told that the version 0.30 unit he was using was "near final", I gasped at the irresponsibility of whoever told him that. Because it was not. The HARDWARE was near final, yes, but the software and the changes made to the imaging chain were far from final.

Even so -- the imaging isn't going to be truly "final" until folks dial in the scene file recipes that they like, and people start sharing their scene files. I've said before -- this is the most "paintable" Panasonic handheld I've ever seen. You can adjust, modify, push, pull, rotate, twist, and otherwise manipulate the image in-camera to a great degree, and only after people have done that to their own personal satisfaction, can we expect to start seeing footage that they feel is truly representative of what the camera can do.
 
Can't find instructions in manual for loading or saving scene files from a card. Is it similar to other Panasonic cameras?
If there are issues with color, but not noise, and I want to make the image look like an Canon 5DMkii or a Panasonic GH4, how do I do it? Is it possible to to come close using an HDMI connection to an HD TV?
 
Is it possible to to come close using an HDMI connection to an HD TV?
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Forget TV to create and test your scene files.
1) A lot of TV produce characteristic and vibrant colors, not as unbiased as good computer monitors.
2) Some TV, even in Full HD or more, erase the noise with fine details (like a strong Coring).
Don't work with this.
 
Thanks for posting your progress Kobayashi. Looking better. If I could add my opinion, I would say the highlights still seem a bit strained. Not so much as over exposure but just that the cameras is not handling the upper 10% of the range gracefully. Also, the image I watched on Vimeo seemed a little over sharpened, maybe a tad "crispy". There is plenty of detail which will afford you to back off of any in camera or post sharpening to round off the edges of things.
 
Bassman2003 said:
Thanks for posting your progress Kobayashi. Looking better. If I could add my opinion, I would say the highlights still seem a bit strained. Not so much as over exposure but just that the cameras is not handling the upper 10% of the range gracefully. Also, the image I watched on Vimeo seemed a little over sharpened, maybe a tad "crispy". There is plenty of detail which will afford you to back off of any in camera or post sharpening to round off the edges of things.
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I am seeing the same problem with highlights. It seem as if the dynamic range in the highlights have been compressed - it looks as if the sky is only one color. Maybe a different grade would help or maybe it wasn't ideally exposed for V-Log.

Seems like a complex beast. I like that the camera has a lot of flexibility but I hope that Panny added in some well thought out and tested presets. Part of the idea of a run and gun camera is to able to point and shoot in many situations. I don't think Run and Gunners want to spend hours fiddling with a bunch of setting parameters.
 
I have always spent more than hours and hours on my presets. It is an investment in your final quality. Once you set them up you are done. You just need a camera with a ton of setting parameters that the DVX200 has. I have my PX70 dialed in to where it is point and shoot thanks to its great menu selection.
 
True North said:
I am seeing the same problem with highlights. It seem as if the dynamic range in the highlights have been compressed - it looks as if the sky is only one color. Maybe a different grade would help or maybe it wasn't ideally exposed for V-Log.

Seems like a complex beast. I like that the camera has a lot of flexibility but I hope that Panny added in some well thought out and tested presets. Part of the idea of a run and gun camera is to able to point and shoot in many situations. I don't think Run and Gunners want to spend hours fiddling with a bunch of setting parameters.
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This was a rather difficult day to expose, especially in V-Log, and granted I had taken possession of the camera just 2 hours prior - having never touched one before. The sky was awash with thin clouds and constantly changing - typical British weather. I am sure some professional colourist would do a better job with highlight recovery and the overall grade, that grade i did in 10 minutes, and I am not a pro colourist. I have started to upload selected V_Log clips straight fro the camera and will post on my blog so you can download and do your own grade. Would love to see what others come up with.

I've come to realise looking at the V-LOG images in post that the DVX200 really struggles sometimes with highlights - and compresses them in between 220 and 230-ish on the WFM especially the sky shots. I kid you not, there were maybe 2-3 shots (whcih I didn't use in the final video) where I had blown high's but just slightly. I am both surprised to see the 8bit 420 handle mids and darks relatively well, but again dissapointed (but expecting it to) start quickly falling appart when it comes to highlights. It's very easy to clip highs on the DVx200 in V-Log. They just seem like they fall off a cliff in the waveform... I have a lot to learn more on how to get awesome images out of the cam, but so far the 2 days I spent - I am quote fond of what I got from my footage.
 
Thanks for your reports. How would the camera look if you did not use V-Log? Any better with highlights? Does this camera have the DRS feature?
 
Bassman2003 said:
Thanks for your reports. How would the camera look if you did not use V-Log? Any better with highlights? Does this camera have the DRS feature?
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I did not see a DRS features, maybe it's there maybe not. Not sure what it does.

I shot briefly in Scene 1 (too saturated) and Scene 6 - less contrasty, but will have to shoot more on it to see what it can do. V-Log L has the best Dynamic range though, you wont be able to get the same DR from using the scene files alone. I found the image too video-i in Scene 1, and would not use it as it's way too baked in and abrupt in tonality shifts. If I get the camera again, I'll shoot more with all the scene files and then post my findings. Cheers
 
k0bayashi said:
This was a rather difficult day to expose, especially in V-Log, and granted I had taken possession of the camera just 2 hours prior - having never touched one before. The sky was awash with thin clouds and constantly changing - typical British weather. I am sure some professional colourist would do a better job with highlight recovery and the overall grade, that grade i did in 10 minutes, and I am not a pro colourist. I have started to upload selected V_Log clips straight fro the camera and will post on my blog so you can download and do your own grade. Would love to see what others come up with.

I've come to realise looking at the V-LOG images in post that the DVX200 really struggles sometimes with highlights - and compresses them in between 220 and 230-ish on the WFM especially the sky shots. I kid you not, there were maybe 2-3 shots (whcih I didn't use in the final video) where I had blown high's but just slightly. I am both surprised to see the 8bit 420 handle mids and darks relatively well, but again dissapointed (but expecting it to) start quickly falling appart when it comes to highlights. It's very easy to clip highs on the DVx200 in V-Log. They just seem like they fall off a cliff in the waveform... I have a lot to learn more on how to get awesome images out of the cam, but so far the 2 days I spent - I am quote fond of what I got from my footage.
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Great explanation - thanks for sharing your footage and allowing your work to be put under such intense scrutiny. Your certainly a pro in the way you have been managing everyone's comments.

That is great information on the highlight capabilities of this camera. I guess out of an abundance of caution, setting my zebra between 76-78 ire when shooting outdoors my save me a lot of grief. You will loose a little at the top end but at least you are reassured you won't blow your highlights. When you are working on a day like you were with rolling clouds and intermittent sunlight it sound like it can get really tricky when managing exposure in V-Log.

Cheer!
 
True North said:
...setting my zebra between 76-78 ire when shooting outdoors my save me a lot of grief. You will loose a little at the top end but at least you are reassured you won't blow your highlights. When you are working on a day like you were with rolling clouds and intermittent sunlight it sound like it can get really tricky when managing exposure in V-Log.

Cheer!
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Thanks mate, will have some more footage as soon as I managed to find some time to upload it. Good tips on the zebra.
 
k0bayashi said:
I did not see a DRS features, maybe it's there maybe not. Not sure what it does.

I shot briefly in Scene 1 (too saturated) and Scene 6 - less contrasty, but will have to shoot more on it to see what it can do. V-Log L has the best Dynamic range though, you wont be able to get the same DR from using the scene files alone. I found the image too video-i in Scene 1, and would not use it as it's way too baked in and abrupt in tonality shifts. If I get the camera again, I'll shoot more with all the scene files and then post my findings. Cheers
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Thanks. DRS is Dynamic Range Stretch
 
How is Cinelike-D working? On GH4 footage it generally looked very pleasant to me. Maybe not totally filmlike, but mostly like high quality video footage. It would be very useful, if it worked that way on the DVX200, too. Good looking footage with not too much grading.

K0bayashi: Even with struggling highlights, this is maybe the first DVX-footage I feel emotionally connected to. Slowly the potential of this camera is showing up.
 
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joe 1008 said:
How is Cinelike-D working? On GH4 footage it generally looked very pleasant to me. Maybe not totally filmlike, but mostly like high quality video footage. It would be very useful, if it worked that way on the DVX200, too. Good looking footage with not too much grading.

K0bayashi: Even with struggling highlights, this is maybe the first DVX-footage I feel emotionally connected to. Slowly the potential of this camera is showing up.
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Thank you for your kind words, I do think this camera can produce lovely images too if used carefully. I have not shot in Cine-like D yet but I am keen on doing so next time I get a chance to borrow the camera again. Will keep you guys updated on that. Cheers
 
Bassman2003 said:
I would say the highlights still seem a bit strained. Not so much as over exposure but just that the cameras is not handling the upper 10% of the range gracefully.
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How it handles the upper 10% is entirely up to the shooter. You have total knee control. You can choose to use or not use the knee, and if you use the knee, it can be auto or manual. If manual, you can set the knee point at anywhere from 80 IRE on up to, heck, I don't remember, 109 IRE probably. And then you can also select the slope, which determines how aggressively the knee reins in highlights. And, you can also choose the amount of detail added in the knee range (as in, anywhere from 80+ IRE) using the KNEE APE LEVEL control.

All of which is to say -- the highlights are far more in the user's control than they have ever been on any Panasonic handheld. If you don't like what you see, change it, there is extensive control available.
 
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