AG-DVX200 4K Large-Sensor Handheld Camcorder

Dear Mike
I understood this , I have thrown a lot of money to have a good 'Professional 4K "camera, but i always suffer with the settings, which of course is unsuccessful.
I have thrown a lot of money, but i always stay out of productions. It's impossible to work.
 
i never use auto-whitebalance, i use the local light balance, and the camera is always in full manual settings.
here is the raw footage:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/75wviq2qi9nv9bi/noise.mp4?dl=0
if you want to watch it you have to download it!
 
Mike Harvey said:
Coring, on the other hand, smooths out the image, which can help with noise in general... but at the expense, if it's too high, of creating a smeared or a soft focus look.
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Mike is totally correct in saying that coring can produce awful effects, whatever the camera. In general, it's best turned well down.

Whilst agreeing with what he says, I'd probably put the general advice the other way round - take the coring level well down, then set detail level to suit. Unfortunately, coring is too often seen simply as a noise control - "oh, a bit noisy, let's increase the coring". It may affect the noise level - unfortunately it affects the picture in other ways which can give an overall worse effect.

It's worth being quite clear about exactly what it is doing, for anyone who is unsure. The general concept behind a "detail" control is to enhance the apparent sharpness of an edge, to make it APPEAR sharper to the eye. And it does this by making a transition (say dark to light) appear sharper by making the space just before the transition a bit darker, the space after a bit lighter. In strict moderation it works well - overdo the amount and it creates a horrible "cartoon" effect, almost looking like objects have outlines drawn round them. It's arguably one of the factors that led to talk of "video look". And the more it gets applied, a side effect is the more noise gets introduced.

That's detail enhancement in general - what about coring? Above I deliberately said "dark to light" edges - not black to white. So consider three edges: in the first case (say) between IRE levels 40 - 43, in the second 40 - 46, in the third 40-55. In the absence of coring, increasing detail level will treat all three edges the same. With a little coring, you may find nothing happens in the first case, the detail circuitry will only operate if the level change over the edge is greater than (say) IRE 3. Turn coring up even more, and you may find it will then ignore the second edge, and detail will only have an effect on the third case. On practical pictures, the first case may be typical of detail within the skin of a face, the third case the outline of the face against the background. So use coring, and as you turn the detail up the face gets outlined but the detail within it stays "smudgy". Not nice.

If a camera is naturally sharp, there is often a virtuous circle - it's seen as "too sharp", so turn the detail down, and the noise goes down as well and likewise the difference between cored and non-cored detail. But if the camera is more lacking in sharpness in the first place (and as Mike says, that may apply to the AF100) you can get into a vicious circle. Increase detail - but that brings up noise - hmm, try to combat that with coring - hmm, now looks a bit soft so now try a bit more detail..... and so on. The trick is to take coring right down, then see how much you can bring overall detail up. But such will never substitute for a camera which is just naturally sharp off the chip.

And whilst I can't comment about the colour issues some people are complaining about, Barry much earlier posted a chart which conclusively proves that (unlike the AF100) the DVX200 most certainly does have high real resolution. Consequently, it should need very little detail enhancement, and hence very little coring. I fully agree with everything Mike Harvey posted as general advice.
 
pancam said:
detail coring 0, master detail 0, gain 0db other settings full manual
this camera is noise generator:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/43eex7nzdpj8313/01100022.MP4?dl=0
when the light decreases, the color is very reduced, compared to other ca
meras
https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview=01100027.MP4
Click to expand...

sorry - dont know much about live recording. But you record through SDI - could that be involved in these issues? Best way would be to shoot something on the card and see ig it oooks as bad? Have hou tried other scenefiles?
 
pancam said:
today shot, all ground settings, gain 0dB, balance: local, SCN1, detail level:0, aroma level:0, location: television studio
raw file here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dj21f4rt5wjr7qn/01100006.MP4?dl=0
noise, noise, noise
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I just downloaded this clip and played it. It looks great. There is no obvious noise on it. Where are you seeing "noise, noise noise"?

I'll admit that if you blow it up to 400% size, then yes there's noise in the jacket. But from any reasonable viewing distance it looks excellent. And if you weren't using Master Detail +10, you'd probably not be seeing any noise in the jacket either...
 
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pancam said:
i never use auto-whitebalance, i use the local light balance, and the camera is always in full manual settings.
here is the raw footage:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/75wviq2qi9nv9bi/noise.mp4?dl=0
if you want to watch it you have to download it!
Click to expand...

Okay, I downloaded it. For the record, I'm watching on a 24" 1080P monitor, at about 20" away, which is more than close enough to see all the problems in any 1080p footage.

I think your footage looks fine. At the normal size (as it first starts out) there is practically zero noise. There just isn't any. It looks nearly spotless to any casual observer. ZERO noise.

When you zoomed in to magnify it to 1:1, there is a faint texture of noise on the floor. Very faint. I doubt 98% of viewers would ever be able to see it, even if you paid them to. Perhaps some pixel-peepers here will see it, but seriously -- is this a problem? It looks fine!

For the record (again), I viewed it in VLC player, and also imported it into Vegas 12 and zoomed in to pixel-to-pixel. I even zoomed in to 400%; at 400% there's a shimmering noise on the floor. But seriously -- how would that ever be a problem? Who watches footage at 400%?
 
pancam said:
detail coring 0, master detail 0, gain 0db other settings full manual
this camera is noise generator:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/43eex7nzdpj8313/01100022.MP4?dl=0
Click to expand...
Just downloaded it and played it. It looks great. There is zero objectionable noise on this image. None at all.

How are you viewing this footage? Have you tried playing it back on a 4K or HD monitor? Or are you only viewing it on the computer? Because there's nothing wrong with this footage at all, there's just no objectionable noise at all. There's just the tiniest bit of noise in the jacket, but you'd have to pixel-peep and stare at it to be able to even notice it...


when the light decreases, the color is very reduced, compared to other cameras
https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview=01100027.MP4
Click to expand...
This link didn't work for me, I couldn't download this file. It just kept going to the "Log In To DropBox" page.
 
Apologies if it has been asked and answered. What is the sweet spot iris range on the DVX200 in 4K and in 1080p?
 
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harddrive said:
As a first approximation, the DVX200 chip is approximately 16 times the area of that used in the AX1 - which should give it a 4 stop advantage over the AX1 if all else was equal.
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David, could I ask you to please tell me how pixel area to sensitivity comparison computations are made? If there were 8 times more pixels would that be a 2-stop advantage, 4 times be a 1 stop advantage?
 
bluesgeek said:
Apologies if it has been asked and answered. What is the sweet spot iris range on the DVX200 in 4K and in 1080p?
Click to expand...

Keep the iris in single digits in 4k/UHD. F/10 or more should be avoided; stay between f/2.8 and f/9.6 for best results.

In HD it doesn't matter, you can use the full iris range.
 
Barry_Green said:
Just downloaded it and played it. It looks great. There is zero objectionable noise on this image. None at all.

How are you viewing this footage? Have you tried playing it back on a 4K or HD monitor? Or are you only viewing it on the computer? Because there's nothing wrong with this footage at all, there's just no objectionable noise at all. There's just the tiniest bit of noise in the jacket, but you'd have to pixel-peep and stare at it to be able to even notice it...



This link didn't work for me, I couldn't download this file. It just kept going to the "Log In To DropBox" page.
Click to expand...

Playing it back in Windows Media Player, I see noise in the jacket. How much of that is the monitor, how much of that is Windows Media Player, and how much of that is the actual footage, I don't know. It's there, but I guess it's a matter of how objectionable you find it. I've seen worse in local newscasts... I've seen better, but I've seen worse.

The detail level was stated to be set to 0. My question is, is he implementing the suggestions harddrive and I had? Set the camera to somewhere under -20 for detail/v detail enhancement, and turn coring down farther. See what happens.

Aside from that, I thought the footage looked quite good. Really. Skins tones still seemed slightly off, but it wasn't objectionable by any stretch.
 
I just remembered I had some footage I shot last summer on my GH4 still on my harddrive. 100mb/s 1080p... a Ugandan giving a presentation at Microsoft while in a very dark blue suit. Can't share it due to being under an NDA, but it had worse noise in both his dark skin and the suit. Again, not sure how much is the monitor, how much is Windows Media Player, and how much of that is the camera. Point being, I didn't really notice it until I thought to look for it.
 
the situation is as follows:
there are four cameras, Atem switcher, recorder blackmagic, live Produkcion
With three camera image corresponding, to the DVX 200 is completely different, plus noisy
when then say: what is this? Go home
This has never happened before
for example, AC 160, Sony Z7, Panasonic Z 1000, Sony 320, etc..
 
the noise really visible any monitor, even without magnification too
in vain do local white-balance,
the colors are completely different show than the other cameras
if less light almost monochrome the picture
it is useless for camera
 
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