Im shooting a feature doc along with several music videos and other doc style stuff over this year. There is budget to purchase an FS7 now and basically charge rental fees for the camera throughout the rest of the year. Ive been looking at getting a C100 mkII but now Im thinking for only a little bit more I could go FS7. Are you guys pleased with your results? Is it really the "new" C300 that has become the workhorse or is it all just hype? How is post with it? Just want to hear from other pros who are working in field with them what your experience is with it. Thanks!
FS7: After over a year...you guys still liking FS7?
- Thread starter ultramaze
- Start date
jasonbrooks
Well-known member
I hesitated long and hard early last year (when the camera firmware was still pretty shaky to say the least), but finally got the balls to buy one in April just before the end of the UK tax year. I was coming from owning/operating a 5DMk3, and shooting quite a bit of C1/300 on rented cams, and there was a decent learning curve coming to the FS-7. I would say it took about a month to become comfortable with the ergonomics and menu/config side of things, and about 4 months to fully get my head around the colour science and in/outs (unders/overs? ;-) of shooting in log.
Now that I've been shooting with it for about 14months, including 3x 2week shoots towards a feature obs doc, a multitude of shorter doc-style pieces, plus some music videos etc. I STILL LOVE IT. The 4K is nice to have, the slo-mo is fun (and a real sweetener for some clients), but the thing that I really appreciate (which I wasn't actually expecting) is the 10Bit colour. It's so lush, and super-flexible. Shooting log is also a game changer (but then you'd have Log-C with the C-100 mkII anyway, although IMO it's not really quite 'proper' log ;-).
I think the only reason to go with the C-100mkii (given that you CAN afford an FS-7) is if you think you'd use the dual-pixel AF loads. I personally can't imagine using it very much (except possibly during some hectic walk-n-talks), but everyone's different.
I'd built up a decent selection of Canon zooms with the 5D (including the 28-300L, which I can't recommend enough!), and have only taken my MB speed booster off twice I think, so don't worry about Canon functionality if that's a concern.
Re: post workflow, I cut on a top-spec rMBP in CC2015, and haven't run into any trouble. You need to 'thin' the 8-channels of audio down to 2 or 4 when you import clips, but that takes all of 8 seconds. Applying de-logging LUTs adds to system-strain, but I can still play 1080p Slog3 footage back with only the occasional dropped-frame. You can also transcode your Slog .MXFs to de-logged ProRes or similar quickly and easily in DVR if you system's not quite up to de-logging on-the-fly. 4K is harder on your system (not to mention storage!), but that's a given with any camera.
I'd bet my bottom dollar that if you buy one, you won't regret it in a coupla months time. Any more specific questions just ask... ;-)
jason
Now that I've been shooting with it for about 14months, including 3x 2week shoots towards a feature obs doc, a multitude of shorter doc-style pieces, plus some music videos etc. I STILL LOVE IT. The 4K is nice to have, the slo-mo is fun (and a real sweetener for some clients), but the thing that I really appreciate (which I wasn't actually expecting) is the 10Bit colour. It's so lush, and super-flexible. Shooting log is also a game changer (but then you'd have Log-C with the C-100 mkII anyway, although IMO it's not really quite 'proper' log ;-).
I think the only reason to go with the C-100mkii (given that you CAN afford an FS-7) is if you think you'd use the dual-pixel AF loads. I personally can't imagine using it very much (except possibly during some hectic walk-n-talks), but everyone's different.
I'd built up a decent selection of Canon zooms with the 5D (including the 28-300L, which I can't recommend enough!), and have only taken my MB speed booster off twice I think, so don't worry about Canon functionality if that's a concern.
Re: post workflow, I cut on a top-spec rMBP in CC2015, and haven't run into any trouble. You need to 'thin' the 8-channels of audio down to 2 or 4 when you import clips, but that takes all of 8 seconds. Applying de-logging LUTs adds to system-strain, but I can still play 1080p Slog3 footage back with only the occasional dropped-frame. You can also transcode your Slog .MXFs to de-logged ProRes or similar quickly and easily in DVR if you system's not quite up to de-logging on-the-fly. 4K is harder on your system (not to mention storage!), but that's a given with any camera.
I'd bet my bottom dollar that if you buy one, you won't regret it in a coupla months time. Any more specific questions just ask... ;-)
jason
I've had the FS7 for 1 1/2 years now and I think it's the best camera for the price.
Very filmic with BertLUTs, 3 FOVs (full frame, super-35 and 2x crop) that no other camera has and is so useful, 4K up to 60fps which is great and it's just so versatile.
I feel like with Canon my hands are tied behind my back. Speed Booster, the 2x crop 4K 60fps and high frame rates allows me to really get my aesthetic across and I use those a LOT. I can't even image using a C300 Mark II because my videos would not be as interesting without those features for run+gun and docs.
Very filmic with BertLUTs, 3 FOVs (full frame, super-35 and 2x crop) that no other camera has and is so useful, 4K up to 60fps which is great and it's just so versatile.
I feel like with Canon my hands are tied behind my back. Speed Booster, the 2x crop 4K 60fps and high frame rates allows me to really get my aesthetic across and I use those a LOT. I can't even image using a C300 Mark II because my videos would not be as interesting without those features for run+gun and docs.
I was a very early adopter, I've had mine for a year and a half. I still love it and its still surprising me. I shot in custom mode for a while then the cine mode tempted me to learn more about grading and now I am really getting into shooting log mode and feel like I am realizing the camera's potential more and more. It's a camera than can grow with you from corporate videos to high end work.
I bought the FS7 when it came out and used it ever since. Though I like the picture it gives you when exposed and graded properly ( I am only shooting Cine EI mode), I still curse at it a lot. The menus still are deep, changing framerates to everything above 60 requires to many button pushes as almost everything does. But it became better with firmware updates over the years. What I really like and would miss with all the other cams in this price range is the ability to record 4 channels of audio, although you need that hot shoe xlr thing. I often operate alone without a sound guy and being able to run a shotgun or a stereo mic plus two lavs is something I do not want to live without anymore.
I shoot a lot from the shoulder which I think takes a lot of accessories to really make this camera work but now I am comfortable using the wc unified baseplate and the gratical eye together with vlocks on the back. Heavy but nicely balanced, especially with heavy lenses, mattebox, followfocus... And if I need it small I use loxias, a hand grip attached to the camera's rosette and the original evf on the back.
So yes I would still recommend it, for the money I think it is still the best option out there.
I shoot a lot from the shoulder which I think takes a lot of accessories to really make this camera work but now I am comfortable using the wc unified baseplate and the gratical eye together with vlocks on the back. Heavy but nicely balanced, especially with heavy lenses, mattebox, followfocus... And if I need it small I use loxias, a hand grip attached to the camera's rosette and the original evf on the back.
So yes I would still recommend it, for the money I think it is still the best option out there.
Nirv
Carbonite Member
The only negatives with the FS7 I've encountered are the general build quality of the accessories. The base camera is superb value for money but can do with spending a bit of money on 3rd party kit like VF/Monitor mounts, Mic holders, arm replacements etc to improve the overall usability and sturdiness.
The FS7 does everything I need it to do in a tidy package and feel that I can happily skip a generation of cameras and upgrade only when there is an extremely compelling case to do so.
We were discussing in the office what would make us want to upgrade given the FS7 is more than adequate for all client work now and in the near future, we came to the conclusion it would have to be for a true 4k HFR and HDR with excellent sensitivity. Anything less than that and it's not worth considering.
The FS7 does everything I need it to do in a tidy package and feel that I can happily skip a generation of cameras and upgrade only when there is an extremely compelling case to do so.
We were discussing in the office what would make us want to upgrade given the FS7 is more than adequate for all client work now and in the near future, we came to the conclusion it would have to be for a true 4k HFR and HDR with excellent sensitivity. Anything less than that and it's not worth considering.
The camera is great! Really felt like i finally had found my camera when i started using the FS7.
But im not satisfied with the colors. Theres just something not right in the Sony color science. So for my line of work, i cant add more lighting budget or grip, improving my images can only be done by lenses or camera. So im looking at a RED. But the FS7 is so cheap its possible to own both at once, and getting the best of both worlds so to speak.
At the lower price ranges, i dont acknowledge any camera as a real competitor to the FS7.
But im not satisfied with the colors. Theres just something not right in the Sony color science. So for my line of work, i cant add more lighting budget or grip, improving my images can only be done by lenses or camera. So im looking at a RED. But the FS7 is so cheap its possible to own both at once, and getting the best of both worlds so to speak.
At the lower price ranges, i dont acknowledge any camera as a real competitor to the FS7.
Clermond
Veteran
what's wrong for you with colors? sLog3 and CineEi give you so much variety to create a look.
David Kudell
Active member
After 1 year, I'm happy with my FS7 purchase. It's the best bang for the buck, and great for corporate work especially.
Now, if I were to start over today, I'd have a really hard choice between the FS7 and a Red Scarlet-W. Both have their pro's and con's and it really depends on what kind of work you do. Having ProRes on the Scarlet-W makes it now suitable for longer form shooting and events. Having shot on both Dragon and FS7, the image on the Red is definitely more cinematic. However, on the FS7, I can be a one man band with regards to audio, and the wireless audio solution is fantastic on the FS7, as opposed to Red where audio is kind of an afterthought and you need to rig it up with other modules to get XLR jacks. Plus the Scarlet-W is going to be almost 2X the price once you accessorize it, with the Raven being 1.5X the price.
Canon C100 mkII isn't a bad option either, especially if you think you want to use the autofocus features. But the 8 bit color is a drag. And the dynamic range is probably a couple stops less. The Canon has warm colors and decent color science though, an advantage to Canon. The FS7 needs to be graded carefully as it's kind of funky with skin tones drifting towards magenta until you correct it. However, you can correct it and make it look fantastic.
Now, if I were to start over today, I'd have a really hard choice between the FS7 and a Red Scarlet-W. Both have their pro's and con's and it really depends on what kind of work you do. Having ProRes on the Scarlet-W makes it now suitable for longer form shooting and events. Having shot on both Dragon and FS7, the image on the Red is definitely more cinematic. However, on the FS7, I can be a one man band with regards to audio, and the wireless audio solution is fantastic on the FS7, as opposed to Red where audio is kind of an afterthought and you need to rig it up with other modules to get XLR jacks. Plus the Scarlet-W is going to be almost 2X the price once you accessorize it, with the Raven being 1.5X the price.
Canon C100 mkII isn't a bad option either, especially if you think you want to use the autofocus features. But the 8 bit color is a drag. And the dynamic range is probably a couple stops less. The Canon has warm colors and decent color science though, an advantage to Canon. The FS7 needs to be graded carefully as it's kind of funky with skin tones drifting towards magenta until you correct it. However, you can correct it and make it look fantastic.
As everyone else: I am still extremely happy with chosing FS7.
FS8 to make it perfect will have:
- at least 4K 120fps (or higher)
- higher frame rate in FHD
- no LUT monitoring limitations
- faster, more user friendly menu
- FS5 features: whole ND system from it, clear zoom (with a push of a button during recording)
- slightly better built quality (especially grip which is a bit flimsy)
- MI shoe built in body (or at least a way to use it besides stock handle)
FS8 to make it perfect will have:
- at least 4K 120fps (or higher)
- higher frame rate in FHD
- no LUT monitoring limitations
- faster, more user friendly menu
- FS5 features: whole ND system from it, clear zoom (with a push of a button during recording)
- slightly better built quality (especially grip which is a bit flimsy)
- MI shoe built in body (or at least a way to use it besides stock handle)
Exactly. It takes far too much time and competence to remove the fugly magenta look.
Judging from the thread Starcentral had about the subject, opinions vary. Lets not discuss too much. I, dont like the initial look in Sony cams, end of discussion ;-)
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
Too late! Come on let's get a good argument going about the Sony look to stir things up around here.
Took delivery end of October 2014 and still very happy with the camera. I've been using it for events and a few corporate jobs. It took a while to get used to shooting with it. If I was to do it over again I would still go FS7 for the flexibility of 4K XAVC-I and lower codec options and unlimited HFR time recording. Plus Cine-EI is worth it as well.
traviswears
Well-known member
Was waiting for the C300II to come out, but when it did, ended up going FS7 instead. SO glad I did. I love the camera. More flexible, and better ergonomically than the C300 series IMO. In fact, I am shooting a show on the C300II and used it today and really don't like it much at all.
This is coming from a former Canon disciple who thought I'd never own a Sony camera. I do use all EF glass w/both the Metabones adapters and so far zero issues. It's a fun camera that is robust enough for nearly all of my work.
I do still use my C100 a lot and enjoy that camera but for my money, the FS7 is tough to beat. I'll be first in line when they upgrade this model.
This is coming from a former Canon disciple who thought I'd never own a Sony camera. I do use all EF glass w/both the Metabones adapters and so far zero issues. It's a fun camera that is robust enough for nearly all of my work.
I do still use my C100 a lot and enjoy that camera but for my money, the FS7 is tough to beat. I'll be first in line when they upgrade this model.
Clermond
Veteran
naaah I'm with Doug. You started the discussion now you have to stand it
I was shooting half a year slog3 custom with LUT I built in LUTCalc slog3-to-CineEI-LCA. No complaints at all with colors. In 2016 I switched to CineEI mostly with Bert's true balance LUT. Great. As I wrote above it beats out C300 and I was jealous to Canon colors since I started with FS700
The FS7 has been great the last 2 years but I've just sold mine and "upgrading" to the Red Scarlet-W
The thing is, Sony will always be the more practical solution for a lot of shoots but TBH I have also used the A7S2 on just as much shoots as the FS7 with no problems.
At some point, no doubt soon, there will be another model update for both the Sony's, I'm sure an A7s3? and probably next year an FS8 5K model? who knows.
But at the end of the day, RED colour science and the classic R3D codec have stood the test of time and add another level to film making and better production value for your projects.
It's up to the shooter to manage each shoot in a way so it can accommodate the RED workflow, if there's a job where it was simply too slow, then it was probably the wrong camera for the job!
I mostly shoot events on an A7s2 and corporates on the FS7, it's different tools for each shoot, and yes, the Red is not going to help speed up my current workflow at all or be the low light monster of the A7s2 but it will give me a better overall image for 60/70% of my shoots.
These days every client wants fast and good and there seems to be less and less time for setups which dictates the camera choice, I certainly wouldn't turn up for a news interview with a RED and I think these days everyone needs a few options in their camera bags.
So. yep. the FS7 is still as popular as ever, but there are now better and much more affordable options out there for DOP's who want jump up a level.
The thing is, Sony will always be the more practical solution for a lot of shoots but TBH I have also used the A7S2 on just as much shoots as the FS7 with no problems.
At some point, no doubt soon, there will be another model update for both the Sony's, I'm sure an A7s3? and probably next year an FS8 5K model? who knows.
But at the end of the day, RED colour science and the classic R3D codec have stood the test of time and add another level to film making and better production value for your projects.
It's up to the shooter to manage each shoot in a way so it can accommodate the RED workflow, if there's a job where it was simply too slow, then it was probably the wrong camera for the job!
I mostly shoot events on an A7s2 and corporates on the FS7, it's different tools for each shoot, and yes, the Red is not going to help speed up my current workflow at all or be the low light monster of the A7s2 but it will give me a better overall image for 60/70% of my shoots.
These days every client wants fast and good and there seems to be less and less time for setups which dictates the camera choice, I certainly wouldn't turn up for a news interview with a RED and I think these days everyone needs a few options in their camera bags.
So. yep. the FS7 is still as popular as ever, but there are now better and much more affordable options out there for DOP's who want jump up a level.
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naaah I'm with Doug. You started the discussion now you have to stand it
I was shooting half a year slog3 custom with LUT I built in LUTCalc slog3-to-CineEI-LCA. No complaints at all with colors. In 2016 I switched to CineEI mostly with Bert's true balance LUT. Great. As I wrote above it beats out C300 and I was jealous to Canon colors since I started with FS700
This is not a technical discussion, so theres really only personal taste to discuss. I know you two like the image, and so i dont see the point to discuss it.
Its like clothing. We all have different brands, colors, and tastes
But personally, i actually dislike the look from the BertLut 709 LUT. I also dislike the look from the LC709A LUT. And im not convinced about the LOG grade in Resolve, unless you do more adjustments.
To drive the point home, i recently switched from Canon 5D, to Sony a7S. And no, i hate the colors in my standard stills in the a7S. They are way too cold, and in some degree weird. The Canon always gave me nice skin tones and lush warm feel. In the Sony, i have to manipulate the white balance just to get close to pictures i can keep as family memories.
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3737526
Have a Sony camera, but like Canon colors? Here you go.
Oct 9, 2014
Oct 9, 2014
17
It's been a mostly accepted notion that "Canon colors" are superior to the default colors produced by Sony cameras. A recent view that directly compares the new Canon G7X to the Sony RX100M3 highlights this: