AF101 performed well on Zacuto shootout

Sparky874

Sparky874

Well-known member
Hi all

Just watched the Zacuto shootout in full over lunch and I thought the 101 performed really well, especially when you consider its price range. I am in a very fortunate position where I can switch the 101 for an F3 (for a cost naturally!) but I'm a little unsure about what to do. I love using the 101 and I might just decide to get a Nanoflash ( I edit in Sony Vegas - so pro res no good to me) for a 422 recording. I shoot a lot of sport as well and to be able to record 50 frames a second at full resolution is a really useful feature. But I know that the F3 will give me extra width on the wide end and a better low light performance..it's a tricky one.

:lipsrseal
 
Yeah, you're right about the sensor, but lot's of my work goes for broadcast and 10bit isn't such a big issue -certainly great for heavy FX work but otherwise, not a great deal. I think the F3 is probably more future proofed as it is a great body to build upon.
 
If you're happy with what you've got, why spend an extra $10,000? Milk what you've got for as long as it'll go.

To say that the F3 is future-proofed... pretty much nothing in this industry is future-proofed right now. I think the AF100 and the F3 both occupy niches of being exceptional performers at their price points, and the best buys on the market... but we seriously don't know what things will be like six months from now, much less a year from now.

If you can get what you need done, on what you've got, keep your wallet close at hand, work it as hard as you can, and don't even consider spending money until you have to -- and by that time, almost unquestionably something bigger, better, and cheaper will be out.
 
FelixGER said:
Prores works without any issues with Vegas. You just need to have quicktime installed
Click to expand...

wow, I didn't know that! The research I've done looking into it suggested otherwise, that's great news. Are you using an external recorder with your 101 and editing with Vegas? Would love to know which one?! Could save me considerable money buying the nanoflash. Can you edit with the Prores files directly or do you have to 'bring them in' in a different wrapper?
 
Keep in mind that the F3 records in MPEG2 and the AF100 in MPEG4, huge difference in the codecs with MPEG4 coming out the clear winner, see the write up her under the Articles section. Also if you are shooing sports, you should probably consider the need for Neutral Density and the AF100 has 3, 2 stops, 4 stops and 6 stops; the F3 only 2, it is missing the middle one, so you have a little or a lot. That might bite you on a sunny with clouds sort of a day. The tool should do what you need it to so that you can do your job, which is to get the best pictures recorded and into post.

Best,

Jan
 
Sparky874 said:
wow, I didn't know that! The research I've done looking into it suggested otherwise, that's great news. Are you using an external recorder with your 101 and editing with Vegas? Would love to know which one?! Could save me considerable money buying the nanoflash. Can you edit with the Prores files directly or do you have to 'bring them in' in a different wrapper?
Click to expand...

I´m not an Af101 owner, but I want to use an Atomos Ninja on my FS100 and therefore I also did some research regarding vegas and found out it works. Just download a prores file (File link: http://camerarentalz.com/low-light-mysterium-x/) and try for yourself
 
FelixGER said:
I´m not an Af101 owner, but I want to use an Atomos Ninja on my FS100 and therefore I also did some research regarding vegas and found out it works. Just download a prores file (File link: http://camerarentalz.com/low-light-mysterium-x/) and try for yourself
Click to expand...
Thanks downloading this prores clip now. On other Vegas forums I've read it really slows down editing this codec. I usually edit mxf files and Sony handles it like a dream. Any other users out there using prores files with Sony Vegas?

Cheers, Sparky
 
FelixGER said:
I´m not an Af101 owner, but I want to use an Atomos Ninja on my FS100 and therefore I also did some research regarding vegas and found out it works. Just download a prores file (File link: http://camerarentalz.com/low-light-mysterium-x/) and try for yourself
Click to expand...

Just downloaded this clip (great clip!) brought it into Vegas and it ran really smoothly. I even popped a colour fx on it and it still ran smoothly. This is great news for me as I can now look at getting the Ninja to go with my AF101. Thanks for taking the time out to help.
 
I like the look of the af100 with very controlled lighting but in all test I've seen, it seems this cam fails miserably in the way it handles highlights. But other wise the cam provide a nice picture among the others.
 
reem12 said:
I like the look of the af100 with very controlled lighting but in all test I've seen, it seems this cam fails miserably in the way it handles highlights. But other wise the cam provide a nice picture among the others.
Click to expand...

Would recording to a Nanoflash at 4:2:2 100Mbps Long-GOP offer much in the way of improved highlight handling???
 
reem12 said:
I like the look of the af100 with very controlled lighting but in all test I've seen, it seems this cam fails miserably in the way it handles highlights. But other wise the cam provide a nice picture among the others.
Click to expand...

It handles highlights just fine. It's OVEREXPOSURE that causes issues. And it exhibits the same kind of overexposure yellowness that the FS100 does, and the F3 does, and the DVX and the HVX and the EX1 and everything else.

It isn't a problem. But if you don't like the look, the solution is easy -- don't overexpose. And if you really, really can't control light whatsoever, drop the chroma level to -7 and use the cine-D gamma and it will greatly extend the range of accurate color reproduction before overexposure causes chroma clipping.
 
Barry_Green said:
It handles highlights just fine. It's OVEREXPOSURE that causes issues. And it exhibits the same kind of overexposure yellowness that the FS100 does, and the F3 does, and the DVX and the HVX and the EX1 and everything else.

It isn't a problem. But if you don't like the look, the solution is easy -- don't overexpose. And if you really, really can't control light whatsoever, drop the chroma level to -7 and use the cine-D gamma and it will greatly extend the range of accurate color reproduction before overexposure causes chroma clipping.
Click to expand...

I don't know, Barry - I like my AF100 and all - but isn't it pretty much accepted by now (and validated by the shootout) that the camera has an issue with highlights that the other cameras you mentioned just don't have?

(Or, to put it nicely - you have to be EXTREMELY careful with highlights and clipping - with less forgiveness or margin-of-error than the other cameras)

I wouldn't go as far as to say it "fails miserably" - but I also wouldn't go as far as to say "It handles highlights just fine".
 
Steve R said:
I wouldn't go as far as to say it "fails miserably" - but I also wouldn't go as far as to say "It handles highlights just fine".
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Every piece of equipment has its strong and weak points. The main purpose of exercises like the SCCE is to showcase performance in extreme situations. Botched lighting or no lighting may result in mediocre footage on the Alexa just like on the AF100. Besides, the capability of a particular sensor in specific extreme situation shall not discount 99.99% other situations where the same sensor captures great footage unless one shoots predominantly overexposed scenery. And if the consensus still holds true, the sensor still contributes only a fraction of a percent towards a great or lousy production.
 
Steve R said:
I don't know, Barry - I like my AF100 and all - but isn't it pretty much accepted by now (and validated by the shootout) that the camera has an issue with highlights that the other cameras you mentioned just don't have?

(Or, to put it nicely - you have to be EXTREMELY careful with highlights and clipping - with less forgiveness or margin-of-error than the other cameras)

I wouldn't go as far as to say it "fails miserably" - but I also wouldn't go as far as to say "It handles highlights just fine".
Click to expand...

depends on your definition of highlights
 
Steve R said:
I don't know, Barry - I like my AF100 and all - but isn't it pretty much accepted by now (and validated by the shootout) that the camera has an issue with highlights that the other cameras you mentioned just don't have?

(Or, to put it nicely - you have to be EXTREMELY careful with highlights and clipping - with less forgiveness or margin-of-error than the other cameras)

I wouldn't go as far as to say it "fails miserably" - but I also wouldn't go as far as to say "It handles highlights just fine".
Click to expand...

You have to be very careful that you understand the test. ( Great test methodology BTW)

None of the tests were lit specific to any of the cameras. A control test covered all the cameras.
If one was lighting for any particular camera...one would light differently for each one.

Thats the name of the game. Knowing the tool that you are using.

you have to be EXTREMELY careful with highlights and clipping
Click to expand...

That rule applies to all / any of the cameras.

The DP must "slip and slide" the exposure to "fit" the dynamic range of the particular camera. Knowing what that is... was a crucial piece of info provided by these tests.

Note: the exposure is done with lighting primarily. Aperture is secondary in the equation.
 
Steve R said:
I don't know, Barry - I like my AF100 and all - but isn't it pretty much accepted by now (and validated by the shootout) that the camera has an issue with highlights that the other cameras you mentioned just don't have?
Click to expand...
No, it's accepted and acknowledged that all these cameras have the same situation -- if you overexpose them, the colors go yellowish. So don't overexpose.

(Or, to put it nicely - you have to be EXTREMELY careful with highlights and clipping - with less forgiveness or margin-of-error than the other cameras)
Click to expand...
All you have to do is not overexpose. Is that really that difficult? Use your zebras. Put 'em on 100. Don't let them show up. Done.

Yes, there will be scenarios where you can't do that, but in general, you certainly can avoid it. I mean, this is the same as cameras have been performing for the last eight years, and we didn't have a problem back then...
 
I will explain Barrys "exposure" comment in a different way.

Work within the dynamic range of the camera. Each camera is different.

The AF100 has a more compressed dynamic range than some of the others but the range is in a different position on the scale than some others as well. You have to work within that range as well as where it is positioned in the scale.
 
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