AF100 w/Ki Pro Mini Dropped Frames Problem

M

Matt Madrid

New member
Hey guys, I wonder if any of you more experienced Ki Pro or AF100 users can help me.

I am shooting 720/30p (settings needed for my job) on the AF100 and the Ki Pro Mini, However after a couple minutes of rolling the Ki Pro gives me a dropped frames error and stops recording. I had the Ki Pro mounted on a Zacuto handheld style rig and it was over my shoulder so i didn't see what the problem was for a while. Anyway, if i hadn't also bee recording to the SD card in the AF100 i would have lost the whole shoot. How can i figure out what is causing this error and fix this problem.

Oh, the Ki Pro is connected via SDI and is powered by a Varizoom V-mount Battery.

I really hope i am just overlooking some small detail that will fix it right up. Even if it makes me look stupid lol.

Thanks in advance.
 
what CF card are you running in it? Also check your firmware version. Dropping frames at 730/30 is not really good. I was shooting a week back and had the same problem but with 1080/30.
 
The CF Cards are some of the recommended ones, SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s 64 GB, i read somewhere that the transfer rate is usually around 100MB/s and i thought that was the problem, but why would it be a recommended card if it drops after 2 minutes?

Also, would that be a problem with the firmware on the af100 or the ki pro? We just unboxed the ki pro a couple weeks ago, so it may need an update.

thanks!
 
AF100 has nothing to do with it, that's strictly a Ki Pro issue.

Make sure the cards are properly and freshly formatted.
 
Yeah, the cards not being formatted right was my first thought but i double checked all that. I am looking into the firmware update right now. More suggestions welcome!
 
Unfortunately i won't be able to update and test today, as my office as a terrible lack of ethernet cables, by which i mean NONE AT ALL. Tomorrow i will give that a shot after i bring in my own cable. Until then I'll keep trying things, but i have to say, im stuck.
 
It is most likely Ki Pro firmware version. Happened to me at the beginning of the year and never again since I updated the Ki Pro.
 
Matt M. - Here are some thoughts...

First, you wrote: "I am shooting 720p/30 (settings needed for my job) on the AF100 and the Ki Pro Mini..." Well, with most Panasonic VFR capable cameras, extracting 720p/30 aka 720p 29.97 from within a 720p 59.94 signal would not be an issue. However, you are using a Panasonic AG-AF100 and it's VFR information, provided in the SDI ancillary data, is different from other Panasonic VFR capable camcorders, such as the AG-HPX170. AJA tries to make it as clear as possible in the Release Notes for the firmware of the Ki Pro Mini that the AG-AF100 is an exception to the norm. In both the initial firmware and the latest firmware Release Notes, this special exception related to the Panasonic AG-AF100 is noted:
http://www.aja.com/pdf/ReleaseNotes_KiProMini_v2.1.pdf
and
http://www.aja.com/pdf/ReleaseNotes_KiProMini_v2.5.pdf

So, if you are hoping to record 720p/30 (720p 29.97) from the camera's 720p 59.94 output, I'm sorry, but that is not yet supported by current firmware; we hope to add support for the new way in which VFR information is reported by this particular camera in a future firmware update. As a side note, you can determine if the correct VFR frame rate is being extracted by looking at the STATUS to see what the incoming video format/framerate reported is and what the record format being reported is. I imagine if you check this, you will see 720p 59.94 reported for the incoming video format/framerate and the record format.

With regards to the dropped frames you are experiencing, if you purchased your SanDisk Extreme Pro CF card from a reputable vendor (meaning it's not something of "questionable" origin which might not be a real SanDisk Extreme Pro CF card), typically the best solution is to back up any recordings on the CF card to your edit system's storage solution and then reformat the CF card in the Ki Pro Mini via the MEDIA menu parameter. Formatting the media should clear any possible directory errors that could lead to dropped frames. Additionally, if you aren't sure about the use of the SLOT button, it's important to realize it's significance in terms of the directory for the CF media. If you have been removing the CF cards without using the SLOT button, it won't "hurt" the media, but eventually you might need to reformat the CF card in order to write to it properly due to directory errors from not unmounting it from the file system properly. AJA tries to make the importance of this clear in the Ki Pro Mini operational manual.

With any questions you might have about an AJA product like the Ki Pro Mini, I would always recommend contacting AJA Technical Support via phone or email; it's really difficult for me to ferret out all the posts that might be floating around on this and other internet forums! AJA Technical Support can be reached between 9am and 5pm PST. They will be happy to help you walk through settings, etc. Contact information for AJA Technical Support:
http://www.aja.com/support/contact-support.php

Hope this is helpful.
 
Jon raises an excellent point -- there are many bogus/counterfeit Sandisk cards out there, that don't perform nearly as well as a genuine Sandisk. You should only buy your cards from authorized dealers -- and to find an authorized dealer, go to http://sandisk.com/sandisk-support/where-to-buy .

Note -- I am not talking about "reputable" dealers. I know many people may have dealers they've used before and who they trust, but if they're not on SanDisk's list, do not buy SanDisk cards from them. Period.

Problem is -- even THAT isn't a guarantee. Check out this post from someone who claims that they bought a counterfeit card from Adorama. And Adorama is on SanDisk's list of authorized sellers!

About the only way you can be guaranteed to get a genuine SanDisk card, is to buy it directly from SanDisk through their online store.

Ebay has a tutorial on how to avoid getting burned with fakes: http://reviews.ebay.com/FAKE-SanDisk-Ultra-Compact-Flash-Cards-Exposed_W0QQugidZ10000000001235396

Note - I'm not telling the OP that he definitely has a fake. I'm just saying that the problem is a lot more widespread and prevalent than most of us would like to think possible, and AJA has very strict requirements of what CF cards will work with their device, and so if you want to be sure to get compatible cards, you have to absolutely be certain that you have legitimate, authorized cards and not be using counterfeit/fake cards. And it's harder to be sure of that than you'd think.
 
Note -- as I got to the bottom of the contents on that Adorama post, the guy said he sent the card back and received a replacement, with the exact same serial number. And that someone at SanDisk said "your card looks legit." Which makes no sense -- how are there two cards with the same serial number?

Anyway -- there's ways to tell whether it's legit or not, you can run certain programs that will tell you.
 
Thank you!

Thank you!

Hey, thanks for all the great info. I hope they get a firmware update for our needs soon!

Thanks for your time explaining that whole process i think i understand it better now.

Also, its funny that the adorama thing came up. Since we were just talking about that whole mess that happened a couple years ago at work. I happen to be one of the Operators and editor for Adorama TV and thats exactly where all our stuff came from. Anyway, they are legit cards, and other than the conversion frame rate issue, i think our main problem is that we have out of the box firmware.

anyway, thanks again!
 
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