AF100 HDMI and SDI

[David Shapton]

Does that BM unit only record uncompressed? AVC-I 100 would be a nice option.

It only records uncompressed. It is actually technically harder and more expensive to record to ProRes or any other compression codec, which is why recorders that have this ability cost more. But of course, like for like, with a codec like ProRes, which at 220Mbit/s is visually identical to uncompressed, you only need one sixth of the storage, and one sixth of the bandwidth in your computer storage system when you're editing.

Dave Shapton
President
Atomos EMEA

 

[NeedCreative]

Dave and I will never see eye to eye on the Ninja, and that's okay -- we have different priorities. In my mind, the absolute most important priority in an external recorder is reliability. Would I use a spinning hard drive in an external recorder? Never. Never ever ever. But that's me. If someone wants to do that, hey, go right ahead -- but to me that's not a valid idea. The Ninja can do it. And the Ninja appeals to the low-cost crowd, being (by far) the lowest-cost recorder out there, so maybe for that group, a spinning hard disk is a reasonable choice. But as for me and my projects and my clients, no thanks. I would never use an old FireStore, and I would never use a spinning hard disk in a PIX 240 (can it use a spinning drive? If not, why not?) and I would never use a spinning drive in the Ninja.


Secondly, HDMI. Dave says "it's fine". Okay, for you, and for those of your customers who are happy with it. To me, it is not fine. It is not acceptable. It is a consumer connector that was designed to connect a blu-ray player to a TV. It is not a ruggedized, time-tested, battle-proven BNC on high-quality coax. Yes, you can get a locking connector to minimize some of the patheticness inherent in the HDMI connector, but ... why? When you have an SDI port sitting there, why bother?

Third, there are places and times when the Ninja would be the exact right recorder. The FS100, for example. It doesn't have HD-SDI, so an SDI recorder isn't necessary. It's solely HDMI, so ... as long as you're already pigeonholed into using HDMI, there's no reason to pay more for a Samurai when the Ninja is the only one that will work with your camera, right? Or if someone for some reason really wanted to hook up a recorder to a GH2, the Ninja is the way to go.

But this thread, and this question, wasn't about those. It was about the AF100. And paired with the AF100, I think the benefits of a Samurai or PIX over a Ninja are just so substantial that it's not even worth discussing an alternative. HDMI doesn't support timecode, SDI does. Game, set, match for the SDI recorder. HDMI doesn't support 24PsF, and the SDI recorder does. Game, set, and match for the SDI recorder. HDMI is HDMI, whereas SDI is SDI... game, set, and match for SDI. I currently have a Nano, which offers both HDMI and HD-SDI. No way on earth, no force in heaven or hell, could get me to use the HDMI connector, when SDI is readily available.

Again, my perspective is one of ultimate reliability being the paramount concern. One reason why I am an advocate for P2 over any other recording media. And why I constantly tell people to avoid the cheapo no-name or discount brands of SD cards, and instead to spring for the top-of-the-line SanDisk and Panasonics which offer advanced error detection and error correction. And why, even though I don't think an external recorder is all that mandatory for an AF100, I still use one, because I love the idea of redundancy. And I am very comfortable in offering the following observation: HDMI is for monitoring. If your cable glitches on you in a monitor, it's an inconvenience. If your cable glitches on you in your recorder, it's a disaster. External recorders should be SDI, period.

It's not that you couldn't use a Ninja with an AF100. You could. And if you want the absolute cheapest way to go, while still enjoying the benefits of 4:2:2 and a higher-bitrate codec, the Ninja is an option. I just think there are much better options that are more homogenous with the camera and make a better fit.

Barry I agree with you, generally. I'm on a FS100 so I'm forced to HDMI, so the Ninja fits for me. I'm using a hard disk, which isnt the best but any backup is better than no backup (which is what most FS100 shooters will go for, honestly). I also agree that HDMI sucks as a connector; it was designed for TVs and game consoles and so on, plug once or twice and forget it. Never for constant use. I still am upset at Sony for not including SDI on the FS100, but it is what it is. At least the signal is good.... lol

 

[Denwa]

I've never been a fan of HDMI. I find it's quality inconsistent. Just hooking up to monitors I often find the Component (Analog) signal looks better. Is the the monitors? Cables? Connectors? I don't know, having switched cables around etc. I just find it odd that a digital signal can be so inconsistent yet the analog one seems to always be spot on.

Thus, If I was recording to an external recorder that had HD-SDI, like Barry said, No brainer.. I'd opt for the HD-SDI recorder.

 

[joshdstanton]

Frame Rates on field recorders...

Frame Rates on field recorders...

Hi All,
I've been having a bit of trouble determining which recorder can handle which frame rates from the AF100 and at what res.
Can anyone chime in on this, or point me in the right direction if this has already been discussed?
From what I can tell, recorders that encode to Prores aren't going to be capable of 1080p60 because it's not a broadcast standard and all that.
On the other hand, I've read that the AF100 doesn't output anything above 1080i30 through the sdi port. What about through HDMI?
I'm most interested in 1080p30. Are any recorders capable of this?
And what about undercranking?
Thanks much!

 

[Fotojorno]

Just a FYI regarding powering a Ki Pro Mini; big & expensive AB's are not the only option. I use my Swit's that have a D-tap that I have for my EX1. http://www.swit.us/libas.html They'll give you about 3 hours+ on the KPM.

Regardless though, Barry is correct in saying it adds some weight. My KP Mini, Zacuto Zwiss plate and Swit battery have definitely added a few pounds to my AF, not to mention the Oly 14-35 f2. I've been walking around Riga Latvia the past week with the rig on sticks and I'm glad the shoot is over. Also glad I've never owned a ENG cam.

I think I just outgrew my Sachtler FSB6.. Damn it.