AF-100 Wishlist/Suggestion Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Luis Caffesse
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mikkowilson
Steadi-Guru
Nope, same thing. Just something visual to show the operator what would get cut off.
- Mikko
- Mikko
Pedro_Iorio
Member
Jan,
I wouldn't mind paying an extra couple thousand for the reliability of the P2, and for keeping and already proven and bought workflow. 8K USD isn't much for such a dream cam.
Best,
Pedro
Jason Adams
Section Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason.adams
I am an HPX owner wanting the next great thing and a DSLR owner sick of compromise.
Hi Jason,
I thank you for owning the HPX. Having the DSLR though, means that you know what the compromises are in that usage. Aliasing, Audio, a compromised codec.
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Sorry but AVCAM is not a replacement for an HPX. If I I have to take a hit on codec and work flow (AVCCAM SD Cards.)Then Ill take DSLR.
Ah, but there is so much that you don't know that I would suggest that you simply reserve judgment. We had AVCCAM blown up to 150" diagonal in our large theater presentation and frankly I found no fault in it. Did we edit in the native codec, no, we edited in Pro-Res HQ and then back out to AVC-Intra. Looked great.
Quote:
At its current spec the AF100 is a compromise. NO P2, No DVCPRO HD/AVCINTRA. If I can't have what I want why pay 6K for it.
You don't know all that it will do as it has not been fully defined. But I do know that it will have a feature set that a video person needs to record high quality HD video without the fear of Aliasing in the video recording and being able to watch that on a live output. Add that to great audio and that is really just the beginning.
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I have said it from the begging. If this is not P2 4:2:2 then I'll keep my Canon.
We actually cut a green screen with it and it too looked really good so I think you just need to hold your reservations till it gets closer to delivery.
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I feel the AF100 is the evolution of the HMC150 not the HPX170.
Actually it is in a class of its own, there isn't another camera like it.
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think Panny is drawing a hard line here to protect the runnaway success with broadcasters and P2. I think the HPX170 is the last sub 10k P2 camera we will see. I think the camera will do well, but to suggest this is the no compromise large format cam just doesn't jive with me.
Anyone can have an opinion and you have spoken yours. Mine is that I think that this camera will be will be a runaway success as AVCCAM, the optimized AVCHD codec , is an awesome codec. To make this camera P2 camera would increase its price by a good margin.
Quote:
But Lets look at the current situation. If the camera shipped tomorrow with these specs.
The specs as we know them: 4/3"s imager, AVCCAM 1080, 24p, 30p and 60i and 720 with variable frames and XLR inputs for audio. Recording to inexpensive media, and adaptable to most lensing systems out there, except the B4 Eng mount. These are the things we know for sure. Not a lot of specs here to know.
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With Canon I have to use a codec I hate. ( lojacked no B frame h.264) with panny I will have to use another codec I don't like ( long GOP 4:2:0 whos only consalation is a higher bit rate than the other sucky codecs.)
It is a much better codec than you know. Way better than that in the DSLRs
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Prove me wrong Panny I want to buy this.
Hold off your opinion until you see one and get to make it record. Frankly I was pleasently surprised with the 3D camera's recording to the AVCCAM. That has a 1/4" imagers and the images were rather stunning. So I am a real believer in this codec, I think it offers an inexpensive recording option but I don't think you edit there. I want you to buy one, and I think you will.
Best,
Jan
Awesome. This is why Pannasonic always gets my business, because Jan is here actively listening to our requests and complaints. I appreciate the input Jan and I will indeed reserve Judgment for the final cam. Knowing this cam is under your watchful eye lends it huge credibility from the beginning. I have to say my HPX 170 is the best cam I have ever owned, feature set, image, ergonomics it was a home run. If you can do that with a large sensor cam then I will be first in line to own one.
It shows unparalleled commitment to customers that you would even justify my ranting on the feature set of an "UNRELEASED CAMERA" and try to talk me back into Panasonic. I appreciate everything you do here at user. I have spoken my peace and will wait for the shipping camera, can't wait to see what you come up with.
Starshine Video
Well-known member
For those people wanting P2 and claiming that they are willing to pay. Why not just get an Hpg-20 and record via the hd-sdi to avc-intra on P2... I and many other people have no real need for P2, and have not bought into the system. P2 is a cool system and I have no real objections to it, but it would kill a huge number of sales if this camera was 2k more expensive and required P2.
Mike Harvey
Veteran
One alternative is to do something similar to the HMC150/HPX170... do a SDXC version and a P2 version (AF100/AF200?).
Barry_Green
Moderator
I think the best solution is to have two models, just like the HMC150 & HPX170. If it's P2 with AVC-Intra, I am totally down with paying a grand or two more. If it's P2 with DVCPRO-HD, I might argue that AVCCAM is competitive enough and the cost savings might well outweigh the additional 4:2:2.
As for an HPG20 -- only problem with that route is that it adds $5k to the cost of the system, and means you have to have an additional unit chained to the camera. The HPG20 is probably as big as, or bigger than, the AF100. So I'd love to have built-in P2 directly on the unit. But I fully recognize that for many of the customers they'll be perfectly happy with SD/AVCCAM, and I love my HMC150 & HMC40, so I can see that as well.
I think the saturation of P2 is very substantial in the pro world and having on-board recording would be huge. I don't see P2 affecting sales at all. Look at how many HVX's are out there. And now with the E series P2 cards, it's a great time to move over. Why have a recording format that limits the camera right out of the box? The point of the camera is to have a turn-key system without all the workarounds the VDSLR's have. Tethering one more box to the camera is defeating the purpose.
I see Barry beat me to it. Great points as always Barry.
this may sound far-out, but from the SDI connector can we get a higher resolution?
so maybe 2.5k or 3k? thus we can later crop in post. actually, not just crop but digital zoom and digital dolly. still photographers get heaps of cropping room, why can't we?
that would be great fun and really helpful in constructing a unique creative vision
so maybe 2.5k or 3k? thus we can later crop in post. actually, not just crop but digital zoom and digital dolly. still photographers get heaps of cropping room, why can't we?
that would be great fun and really helpful in constructing a unique creative vision
i second this motion.
and add the suggestion of a shake-dust-reduction mechanism like every other new DSLR is implementing
This, I feel, is critical to video work. It is, for various and different reasons, more critical than for still shooting; as fatigue with such a big camera will creep in and make hand holding tricky. Plus one of your hands will be constantly riding the focus (and zoom) rings due to the shallow depth of field.
I know this is dreaming but can we make this camera as light as the HMC150? I don't mind tough plastics as they are lighter and often stronger than the metals.
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Jan mentioned that the addition of P2 would increase the price - and I can only imagine that an increase in price would affect sales. Granted, depending on the pricing and the volume it may not affect profits (none of us are in a position to make that call obviously), but it would definitely have an effect on sales.
As a P2 only model at 2K more, surely that would affect sales.
I would love to see a p2 version, as I previously stated that could win me over. But understand where the big chunk of the market is.
I would love to see a p2 version, as I previously stated that could win me over. But understand where the big chunk of the market is.
Pedro_Iorio
Member
What I meant to say is to have a P2 version for the extra 2K, just like the hpx/hmc.
P2 with AVC- Intra is a real game winner, awesome codec.
P2 with AVC- Intra is a real game winner, awesome codec.
bluevoyagetv
Member
I use HDX 900, SDX900, HVX 200, HPX170, HMX 150.
I can tell you one thing. I love HMC 150. I mixed the video from HMC with almost all other Panasonic cameras I stated up there and so far no one could tell me which clip was shot on HMC or HDX or HVX...
I am very interested in this new camera just the fact it will allow me to use prime lenses.
and 6K price is for me a deal maker.
I am scheduled to shoot a doc in fall 2010 and would love to get this camera before then.
The DSLRs are already answering the pro-sumer end of the market. They satisfy a huge market of users who do not wish to spend more than $5k for a complete package. The next generation of DLRS, likely coming to market around the time the AF100 becomes available, will probably be that much closer to resolving many of the complaints of D90 / GH1 / 5d / 7d users. And the price point will still be sub-$5k.
The GH1 (and GH2) do and will continue to represent Panasonic's solid foothold for that demographic.
Panasonic should absolutely make the AF100 a 2-slot P2 camera. With the promise of a smaller-than-Super-16mm form-factor, it will be a shame to strap an external recording device onto the AF100 to have access to a professional 4:2:2 recording codec. I liken it to having that SR mag on the Genesis and F35. With P2, we know that AVC-Intra and DVCProHD are 100% guaranteed.
I don't understand the "$6k is the ceiling" mental barrier. That people say the promised feature-set is worth only that - and not a dime more - speaks volumes of a segment that Panasonic broadcast should consider leaving to their consumer division.
Most users for digital cinema applications are going to throw a minimum of $2000 in aftermarket kit onto the AF100. Matte boxes, follow focus, rods support, shoulder pods, monitoring. My kit for a cinema-style rig is closer to $10k, including Panasonic BTLH series HD monitoring.
As it is with their operational accessories, many owners will simply bring existing assets to the AF100 - stuff they already own. Predictably, many of those operators will also have existing P2, on which first-cost has long since been resolved.
Long-GOP codecs present significant challenges compared to the slim margin of solutions that come with them.
Panasonic has a chance to design and market this as another solution within their venerable P2 line-up, which is known world-wide for bringing professional-quality in a variety of form-factors. P2HD is the standard the AF100 should rise to and the AF100 will be a guaranteed home-run if they do.
The GH1 (and GH2) do and will continue to represent Panasonic's solid foothold for that demographic.
Panasonic should absolutely make the AF100 a 2-slot P2 camera. With the promise of a smaller-than-Super-16mm form-factor, it will be a shame to strap an external recording device onto the AF100 to have access to a professional 4:2:2 recording codec. I liken it to having that SR mag on the Genesis and F35. With P2, we know that AVC-Intra and DVCProHD are 100% guaranteed.
I don't understand the "$6k is the ceiling" mental barrier. That people say the promised feature-set is worth only that - and not a dime more - speaks volumes of a segment that Panasonic broadcast should consider leaving to their consumer division.
Most users for digital cinema applications are going to throw a minimum of $2000 in aftermarket kit onto the AF100. Matte boxes, follow focus, rods support, shoulder pods, monitoring. My kit for a cinema-style rig is closer to $10k, including Panasonic BTLH series HD monitoring.
As it is with their operational accessories, many owners will simply bring existing assets to the AF100 - stuff they already own. Predictably, many of those operators will also have existing P2, on which first-cost has long since been resolved.
Long-GOP codecs present significant challenges compared to the slim margin of solutions that come with them.
Panasonic has a chance to design and market this as another solution within their venerable P2 line-up, which is known world-wide for bringing professional-quality in a variety of form-factors. P2HD is the standard the AF100 should rise to and the AF100 will be a guaranteed home-run if they do.
MikeGunter
Well-known member
Hi Eric,
The market drives the prices. I'm supposing that paperwork has been done.
What might happen depending upon the success of this camera is a more "max-ed" out "Gh-x" consumer model and supped up AG-XXX professional model with much more features.
Of course, if this one is ditched by users, nothing happens.
I, like a lot of folks here, have met a lot of the Panasonic folks, and I don't think they are dummies. Some research has gone into the product.
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