AF-100 Another DSLR $9,000 4:2:0 is a solution?

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but you can see he says "if you use a 35mm slr" lens he's talking about a FULL FRAME i.e. 5dmkii. so yes. but who would use 5dmkii lenses on af100? this guy doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about
 
For the last time, FULL FRAME DSLR lenses are 2.0x, but that is a moot point as there aren't any Cine lenses in full frame anyway.
 
Ok. Fuel to the fire.... This was what was said BEFORE what I just posted earlier....

Re. the ill-fated, almost grotesque Panasonic AG-AF100, it is rotten enough that this little wannabe camera can only output a poor color fidelity 8-bit signal and not a 10-bit signal, like the better-class pro camcorders can output via their SDI (BNC) jacks. But then, Panasonic "forgot" to mention what type of lenses you are supposed to be using with the AF100/101. Not only that, you cannot use any video lenses on it, even different formats, because there is no power/servo jack (8-pin or 12-pin lens interface) on this supposedly "video" camera.
 
well that should just about end that discussion LOL. does this person work for Canon by any chance? the utter vitriol dripping from his every word like acid towards the camera really exposes this person as someone with an obvious agenda to discredit it for some strange reason

by the way il-fated LOL..this cam is selling out on pre-orders all over the country and will probably break sales records for its class...LMAO!!
 
Jan,

I just want to say it's interesting to hear your perspective from Panasonic, and while I currently have Canon equipment, I have a much higher respect for Panasonic now that I can see first hand that they do listen to us and take an interest. It just may swing my next purchase.
 
Homunculus said:
well that should just about end that discussion LOL. does this person work for Canon by any chance? the utter vitriol dripping from his every word like acid towards the camera really exposes this person as someone with an obvious agenda to discredit it for some strange reason
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Don't take it seriously, he talks like that about almost everything. Sift through the acid and what about the facts? Such as the pin interfaces etc...?
 
dude he called a camera ROTTEN? I mean come on get a grip. the guy needs some valium LOL! ok yes the color outputs 8bit but so does every other camera in this price class and none output higher unless they cost twice as much. it's like him saying Damn this Toyota Corolla is a rotten piece of TRASH! It only goes 80mph top speed when my ferrari goes 200mph! What a joke of a car!

I mean come on? The AF100 is literally half the price of its next competitor that it will be BETTER than (Sony EX series)

And he wants it to have all the hall marks of cameras that cost 20-30k ??? Why not just purchase THOSE cameras instead then ?? It just makes no sense.

about the "pins" ? what about them yes you can't use servo zoom lenses on this to my knowledge, big deal this camera is not exactly made 100% for event videography it's more of a digital cinema cam and was designed that way with input from the filmmaking community here at DVX and elsewhere. Why would you want a servo zoom, (or a zoom period if you ask me) for shooting a film?

how did panasonic "forget to mention" what type of lenses you're "supposed to use"? Unlike Canon DSLR's you can use ANY lens just about in the world on the af100 including CINEMA LENSES for filmmaking which you can't do on 5dmkii as you're stuck using limited canon L glass.

Panasonic pretty clearly and loudly proclaimed this seeing as how at the trade show the camera was sitting there in the glass with a PL mount and a big Zeiss ultra prime on it. How does that construe "forgetting to mention" ?? And everyone already knows all Lumix lenses can be used on it, all canon, nikon, olympus, any damn brand you can name with the right adaptor (most adaptors can be bought for 20-30$)

Yes the 8bit 4:2:0 is disappointing but the cameras that do have this start at a 10,000$ price bracket, and even that is rare as most are 20,000 and up, so what would you rather have 4:2:2 for 10-15k or 4:2:0 at 5k? Apparently more people would rather choose the latter as others have said tons of pro stuff and films were done at 4:2:0 8bit that you don't know about and no one complained or even noticed
 
Yes, I hear you. I think he's being derogatory as he still makes proper movies actually on film cameras. He slates absolutely everything apart from some of the older stuff like super8 and 16mm etc. Maybe the whole digital thing is not such a great place to be and the old ways were better!? Oh no, that's whole other thread!! LOL!!

As everyone keeps saying, there is no perfect camera. However, they'll probably make it one day. It'll have switchable and interchangeable everything! :-)
 
and lastly, he mentioned 3 or 4 spurious things that detract from the camera. Now allow me to repost from earlier in this thread, Barry's compendium of features of this camera that others DONT have


THINGS THE AF100 DOES, THAT A CANON DSLR DOESN'T​
Clean monitoring at full 1920x1080 resolution, suitable for recording to an external recorder

Clean HDMI output at full resolution even during recording, suitable for recording

Professional HD-SDI output

1080/24pSf output

A composite video output jack

SMPTE timecode

LTC timecode synchronizing, for multiple-camera shoots or for using an external audio recorder or timecode slate

A headphone jack for monitoring audio

RCA audio outputs

Professional XLR audio inputs

Line/Mic selectable

Can supply phantom power for microphones

Manual audio level control with no AGC

Option of engaging an automatic limiter to prevent against sudden overmodulation

High-quality audio pre-amps

1080/60i and 1080/50i recording modes

Variable frame rates in 20 steps, from 1080/12p up to 1080/60p, for various levels of slow-motion and fast-motion

720/24p and 720/25p and 720/30p recording modes (in addition to 1080/24p, 1080/25p, 1080/30p, 720/50p, 720/60p, 1080/50i and 1080/60i)

P2/AVCCAM Metadata

Two card slots

Professional image controls

Filmlike Cinegamma gamma curves

Selectable color matrices

Adjustable knee point and master pedestal controls right in camera

Dynamic Range Stretching feature

Color-matched with other Panasonic professional cameras, such as the VariCams

Pre-record, for catching events occurring even before you press the record button

Continuous recording capacity of over 12 hours in economy mode, and continuous recording of six hours in best-quality mode on a single card (no 12-minute time limit!)

Complete freedom from overheating issues

Colored Focus Assist that can be used >while recording<

Capable of video-camera-like autofocus (when used with an appropriate lens)

Face-detection autofocus that can track focus on a moving face

Peaking/EVF DTL for easier manual focus

High-definition color LCD panel

High-definition color viewfinder

Viewfinder that can actually be used during video recording

Two sets of zebras, which can be set from anywhere from 50 to 105 IRE in 5-IRE steps

A built-in Waveform Monitor(!)

A built-in Vectorscope

A built-in Spotmeter (the "Marker" which tells you the IRE brightness of what's in the center of the screen)

Different aspect ratio markings in the LCD, including 16:9, 4:3, 14:9, 1.85:1 and 2.35:1

A 90% "safety zone" for making sure your framing will be visible on all TVs

Film-style variable shutter angles from 1 to 360 degrees, which track automatically with the variable frame rates to always provide consistent motion blur

Syncro-Scan shutter in video mode, giving you nearly infinitely-settable shutter speeds from 1/24.0 to 1/250.0

Built-in optical neutral density filters, including ND .6, ND 1.2, and ND 1.8

SMPTE color bar generator

Cleaner/sharper images with a substantial reduction in aliasing

Elimination of the purple/orange moire that happens on all Canon DSLRs

A much more robust recording format (AVCCAM PH mode) which is more resilient and better than the h.264 on the DSLRs

Elimination of the fixed pattern noise and "vertical streaking"

Greatly improved rolling shutter performance

Ability to assign index points within clips, so you can mark a subsection of a clip and easily jump from spot to spot within that clip

Ability to mark clips "Good" or "No Good" at the press of a button, and that marker will show up in your NLE (depending, of course, on your NLE)

Ability to delete the last clip you just shot, at a button press

Ability to assign custom user names to clips as they get recorded, automatically

Ability to save and exchange "scene files" with other users, for easy matching between multiple cameras

Ability to take any PL-mount lens (not just a few limited telephoto lenses, or having to physically remove the mirror out of your DSLR)

Ability to take c-mount cinema lenses

Ability to take much larger batteries, including 6000mah batteries

Wireless infrared remote controller

Remote iris/focus/start/stop controller sockets

Can perform a manual black balance, with a dedicated physical iris

Fully articulated LCD panel (only the Canon 60D offers this, the others don't)

And, to top it all off, a three-year warranty



If you feel like those features are important to you, then step up to the bar and buy an AF100. If you feel like you wouldn't use those features, then stay with a DSLR.

>and please note -- this is not meant to be some sort of feature-for-feature comparison. This is meant to be a list of new/added/additional capabilities that the AF100 has, that the Canon DSLRs don't have. That's it.<



But please, in the interest of accuracy, let's put an end to this idea of trying to make something into what it isn't. The AF100 isn't a DSLR, it's a professional video camcorder with a DSLR-sized sensor. If it's not for you, that's okay. There are still plenty of DSLRs on the market that you can choose from.
 
Nick Navaro said:
Yes, I hear you. I think he's being derogatory as he still makes proper movies actually on film cameras. He slates absolutely everything apart from some of the older stuff like super8 and 16mm etc. Maybe the whole digital thing is not such a great place to be and the old ways were better!? Oh no, that's whole other thread!! LOL!!

As everyone keeps saying, there is no perfect camera. However, they'll probably make it one day. It'll have switchable and interchangeable everything! :-)
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well guess what barry green has a 35mm film camera, 16mm film cameras, has OWNED the Red One camera, and every other damn camera you can imagine, has placed his films in every top major festival including sxsw, tribeca, sundance, emmy awards, etc and shot them all on everything from DSLR's like GH1, videocams like HPX170, etc. And for his next bigger budget feature film he is putting his money where his mouth is and shooting on AF100 not his 35mm or 16mm or red one, or any thing else. Can your friend say the same and shoot his next feature on his Canon 5dmkii? Somehow I doubt he'll take that plunge
 
Homunculus said:
well guess what barry green has a 35mm film camera, 16mm film cameras, has OWNED the Red One camera, and every other damn camera you can imagine, has placed his films in every top major festival including sxsw, tribeca, sundance, emmy awards, etc and shot them all on everything from DSLR's like GH1, videocams like HPX170, etc. And for his next bigger budget feature film he is putting his money where his mouth is and shooting on AF100 not his 35mm or 16mm or red one, or any thing else. Can your friend say the same and shoot his next feature on his Canon 5dmkii? Somehow I doubt he'll take that plunge
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Haha :-) I don't think he has a 5D. That was the other guy. I should ask him to write what he thinks about the Canon. It would be worse than this, that's for sure!! LOL! :-)
 
PS and just because people get films in festivals doesn't mean they're any good... Look how many films made by big stars with huge money are absolutely rubbish!! LOADS! :-)
 
Nick Navaro said:
Haha :-) I don't think he has a 5D. That was the other guy. I should ask him to write what he thinks about the Canon. It would be worse than this, that's for sure!! LOL! :-)
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now that i would like to hear. some of us like to call it the 5d Moire II around here.

anyway af100 isn't perfect like i said almost every single person on the forums here was disappointed that there's no 10bit 4:2:2 through hd-sdi output and many of us (myself included) still await the results of the final model testing to see if this will debilitate it noticeably from producing pro level work. but the simple fact is that we were hoping that the technology would magically emerge to allow such outputs for such a low price. but as Jan herself seemed to confirm that to put 4:2:2 colorspace and 10bit depth into the cam would have doubled (or more) its price and that simply is not the price market they wanted to put it in as they wanted to have it at the 5k market range which is what they did. if you want a cam with 10bit 4:2:2 then you simply need to go to the next price bracket as there is nothing at af100's price range that has that.

it's the same as belly aching that your 12,000$ KIA car can't accelerate 0-60 in 5 seconds. it's absurd, if you want a car to accelerate that fast, simply head on over to the next price bracket, err the next FEW price brackets up to the 50-100k range and you will have what you want. that's why I don't understand what your friend really is on about. and even the cameras that are at the 10k price bracket (the 1 or 2 that exist) that can do 10bit 4:2:2 guess what??? They don't have interchangeable lens they have crappy servo video wedding lens and can't do shallow depth of field that means you cant' get any filmic quality out of them at all as they are cams for videographers. so what does this mean? It means you have to buy the letus extreme for about 3000-5000$ in order to get them to have any depth of field so they now magicaly become 13000 to 15,000 in price and their image quality still won't even compare to AF100
 
Nick Navaro said:
PS and just because people get films in festivals doesn't mean they're any good... Look how many films made by big stars with huge money are absolutely rubbish!! LOADS! :-)
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yes but money has absolutely nothing to do with festivals. festival entries are judged on quality. theatre gross profits are not made on quality but rather on other factors like stars, special fx etc.

not saying that every film that ever was in a festival is really good, but the point is the festival system is based on subjective judging of quality and everything that gets into the festival is due to its perceived high quality as per the judges. whereas anything that sells a lot of tickets in theatres doesn't have any such stipulation and can be bad or good but is simply 'popular' due to it having angelina jolie as leading star, etc
 
Homunculus said:
but you can see he says "if you use a 35mm slr" lens he's talking about a FULL FRAME i.e. 5dmkii. so yes. but who would use 5dmkii lenses on af100?
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I would imagine many people will be using Canon L glass on the AF100. Seriously, there will be many. I'm sure Birger is counting on it.
 
Homunculus said:
yes but money has absolutely nothing to do with festivals. festival entries are judged on quality. theatre gross profits are not made on quality but rather on other factors like stars, special fx etc.

not saying that every film that ever was in a festival is really good, but the point is the festival system is based on subjective judging of quality and everything that gets into the festival is due to its perceived high quality as per the judges. whereas anything that sells a lot of tickets in theatres doesn't have any such stipulation and can be bad or good but is simply 'popular' due to it having angelina jolie as leading star, etc
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Yes. You are right. I can't believe how long I've been on here today. I'm going to do something else, for my sanity's sake! :-)

Nice talking to you. Catch ya later.
 
f64manray said:
I would imagine many people will be using Canon L glass on the AF100. Seriously, there will be many. I'm sure Birger is counting on it.
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maybe only because all 5d users will be swarming over to the AF100 side when they see that it blows the 5d out of the water, so why let good glass go to waste
 
Nonsense.

I'll be keeping my 5DII and my 60D, as they'll make great B-cameras for my AF-100. And because they're amazing still cameras.
 
Stephen Mick said:
Nonsense.

I'll be keeping my 5DII and my 60D, as they'll make great B-cameras for my AF-100. And because they're amazing still cameras.
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i never said they would get rid of them. i said they will be swarming over to the AF100 which means they will use that for filming and (if they choose to) use the L glass they already have. and then still take photos with their canons. though im sure many will sell theirs to finance the af100
 
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