AF-100 Another DSLR $9,000 4:2:0 is a solution?

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pallllaaaaa said:
Af-100 is just one more mask, and we for sure have to dance with it.
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To an extent this is true. Panasonic, Sony & Canon have all been slow to answer our need for this technology. And, if it weren't for the dSLR revolution it wouldn't be here now.

I remember when the EX-1 came out I had the feeling that they were feeding us crumbs when everyone was going crazy that it had 1/2" CMOS chips. But they were. 1/2" CMOS drove them wild.

It is also amazing to me that a Jim Jannard - God bless him - can trump what these seasoned companies hadn't been able to do - or didn't want to do.

To be frank they (Panasonic, Sony and Canon) have been failures at listening to our needs.
 
Steve Kahn said:
To be frank they (Panasonic, Sony and Canon) have been failures at listening to our needs.
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Sony…completely agree.

Canon…agree, to some extent.

Panasonic…completely disagree.


Sony has long shown a lack of interest in what the independent/low-budget filmmaking community needs. Canon, on the other hand, completely stumbled into it with the 5DII. When they realized that they could create some additional momentum by listening to the market and giving them 24p and "manual" (wink, wink) audio controls, they did so. Panasonic has proven time and again that they do, in fact listen to the needs of this community. One need look no further than the fact that line manager Jan Crittenden has a strong presence here.

Judging from the comments of many, it seems there's an overwhelming feeling that any one of these three companies could give us everything we want in a camera next week. The fact that they haven't is not, in my mind, indicative of any great conspiracy. Companies are in business to sell products and make money. If any of these companies felt giving us the product we all want would significantly add to their bottom line, they would.

That they haven't (yet) indicates to me that either the market is very small, or the engineering realities are much more complex than any of us understand.

And if all of this were so easy, Jannard would likely have done it already.
 
Stephen Mick said:
And if all of this were so easy, Jannard would likely have done it already.
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+1

and he hasn't yet.

No tool is obsolete when another comes out anymore than a 2010 model car is obsolete when the 2011 comes out...

It's just a tool designed to meet the needs of particular artists. People have preferences and are driven by the decisions they have made. Some, like me, will kill for the AF100- twenty years ago, when it was announced, I would have killed for a Scarlet... but the AF100 meets all of my needs and then some. It's a tool, a very interesting one, but just a tool. How you use it matters more than what it can do compared to something else.
 
pharpsied said:
+1

and he hasn't yet.

No tool is obsolete when another comes out anymore than a 2010 model car is obsolete when the 2011 comes out...

It's just a tool designed to meet the needs of particular artists. People have preferences and are driven by the decisions they have made. Some, like me, will kill for the AF100- twenty years ago, when it was announced, I would have killed for a Scarlet... but the AF100 meets all of my needs and then some. It's a tool, a very interesting one, but just a tool. How you use it matters more than what it can do compared to something else.
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I just look at it this way, hey, if it doesn't work for someone, then they shouldn't buy it. That's a +1 change I'll be able to get one sooner since I have a feeling they are going to sell like crazy.
 
i didn,t see in your list the full over cranking 1080p at 60fps? is this possible to sd card? possible to external recording device ?
 
I really just dont get all the hoo ha.

THERE WILL NEVER BE A CAMERA THAT IS THE BE ALL AND END ALL

And we are talking a relatively cheap camera here.

Specs change, technology improves and becomes cheaper.

If you are someone who works in this industry, head down bum up and work. Then the price of your gear becomes a moot point, its a tool of your trade and you should be budgeting to ensure you can upgrade equipment - every other industry in the world does this. And if youre not making money, rethink your strategy.

If youre a hobbyist. Its a HOBBY. If you want the latest thing all the time and have the cash - get it. If you dont - dont. It doesnt make any financial sense to stretch yourself for a hobby.

Im not talking about this in relation to the AF100 here either - just in general.

In two years will Panasonic or another company make a camera at a similar price point to the AF100 thats better? Of course they will. They are all business and need to keep moving forward. Nothing is static.

But as of this December, Panasonic will be the only company to offer a large sensor camera with all the components and functions listed by Barry.
 
jetaddiction@mac.com said:
i didn,t see in your list the full over cranking 1080p at 60fps? is this possible to sd card? possible to external recording device ?
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Full 1080/60p overcranking is possible to the SD card. I don't see how it could work to an external device though, because HDMI/HD-SDI don't support 1080/60p, so I don't know what the monitoring situation would be like.
 
Barry_Green said:
Yes, but Canon records long-GoP MPEG-2 to compactflash cards. Panasonic's recording intraframe H.264 to its P2 cards.
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Sorry for my ignorance (no sarcasm intended) but isn't a megbit a megabit?

That is, once you code to intraframe in the cam's cpu why does that require a P2 card to store. I agree AVC-intra is vastly superior but are you saying it is impossible to save AVC-intra to compactflash cards?
 
grimepoch said:
Just imagine how many people would have been upset if they put the P2 in and increased the priced to $10k for the body only. I sure would have been upset and it would have placed it firmly out of my price range.
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To the contrary, there are also those who will not buy (or may not buy) one because it's lacking P2 and AVC-intra 100. I'm in the "most likely will not buy category", because I'd rather spend a bit more and have additional capabilities that this camera is lacking.

I won't say "never", but I'm inclined to sit this one out until a more full featured camera/codec variant is released, whether it's a Red or Panasonic.

If a gig comes along that would necessitate the AF-100 and could pay for it, I will think otherwise ;-) . This camera hits between the two categories that I'm interested in- a VDSLR without major codec issues and a pricier but less compromised cinema style camera.

Panasonic in due time will release the latter style camera. The AF100 seems designed to eliminate the capable VDSLR niche. Or, to put it another way- put the VDSLR cat back in the bag.

We'll know more tonight or tomorrow about the GH2's capabilities or deficiencies as the case may be.

Interesting times indeed.
 
hotchkiss said:
I'm in the "most likely will not buy category", because I'd rather spend a bit more and have additional capabilities that this camera is lacking.
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This you can absolutely do.

Ki Pro MINI < CLICK!

Remove the side handle of the AF100 to reveal the additional mounts and cold shoe and you should be able to mount this pretty flush to the body.
 
Steve Kahn said:
Sorry for my ignorance (no sarcasm intended) but isn't a megbit a megabit?
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Depends on what you mean... a megabit of h.264 from the DSLRs isn't the same as a megabit of AVCHD from an AF100; 24 megabits of AVCCAM is worth a lot more than 48 megabits of DSLR footage.

That is, once you code to intraframe in the cam's cpu why does that require a P2 card to store. I agree AVC-intra is vastly superior but are you saying it is impossible to save AVC-intra to compactflash cards?
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Ah, I see what you mean. No, it's not necessarily impossible, but it isn't done and it isn't going to be done. AVC-Intra is part of Panasonic's premium line, and part and parcel of that is that it gets stored on P2 cards, which are the most ruggedized, high-performance, bulletproof recording media devised. They're not just memory cards, they're microcomputers with a lot of memory attached, and they're designed to guarantee fault-free performance.

Extreme example, but Panasonic wouldn't record AVC-Intra onto compactflash cards any more than Mozart would write a symphony on toilet paper. It's not that he >couldn't<, it's that he wouldn't.

Furthermore, if they were going to record AVC-Intra onto any standard memory card, CF is about the last product they would choose, because (as they've stated over and over) they don't consider CF a professional video media. It can't even be write-protected, and they don't like the potential for damage with the pins. In P2 they optimized the cards to guarantee no pins can bend or break, they changed the loading mechanism to allow for the trajectory into the camera (or P2-reading device) would be straight and true and the net result is, after 165,000 cameras sold, I don't think I've *ever* heard a single report of a bent pin or anything like it. Can't say the same for CF.

And yes, I very well understand that Red and Canon are both using CF. Reasonable people are allowed to disagree. I've stated Panasonic's position as it's been explained to me, as best I can recall. You don't have to agree with it, but you probably should get used to the idea that that's the way they feel, and because of that, you're not going to see AVC-Intra recorded on CF cards.

I don't think it's unreasonable for them to record it to SDXC cards though, and I keep pushing for that, but so far not getting any traction.
 
so basically what I get here is : we want a 24x36 mm CCD chip camera that records 4:2:2 50 mbps to SDXC cards with interchangeable lenses and full AF 100 features ? or did I get something wrong? ;-)
 
timbook2 said:
so basically what I get here is : we want a 24x36 mm CCD chip camera that records 4:2:2 50 mbps to SDXC cards with interchangeable lenses and full AF 100 features ? or did I get something wrong? ;-)
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I don't know how many people really want Full Frame. Maybe they really do, I dunno. But I think S35 has persevered for a reason.
 
thanks barry .wow i am in. i heard $4995 list wow. making my next wish list already -it would be a 720p 90fps or higher over crank. could this maybe possible with a later software upgrade?
 
If that price is accurate - but whilst I trust Seth, I dont know the source - so Ill still hold, but if it is

Total price of the unit including a 4:2:2 HD-SDI recording solution comes to $6990. Makes two far more affordable than I imagined.
 
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