FS5: AE Shift doesn't work with PP8

S

SamEdwards

Well-known member
Has anybody else noticed that the AE Shift doesn't work with PP8 when you use the push auto iris button? In PP1 you can set it to +1EV and it will set your iris one stop brighter. With PP8 it's the same if you set it to +1 or +2 or 0. What am I missing?
 
AE Shift is not a function I would ever use, but I pulled out my camera to have a look for you. It works just fine with PP8 on my camera. I hope that helps.
 
This thread prompted me to check my FS5. AE shift does not make a difference with any Picture Profile!
What's the deal? Whether set to 0,-2 or +2, there is no difference in f-stop when pushing the Auto Iris button. Tried in UHD and HD. XAVC and AVCHD. Nada.
Could it be the lens? I tested mine with the 18-105 kit lens.

SamEd, are you sure it works in PP1? The AE setting is going to be brighter in non-S-LOG profiles because the ISO is lower. Try setting the FS5 to PP1 and then set the AE shift to different settings and see if it makes a difference.

Alister Chapman recommended a good use for AE Shift. When shooting S-LOG2 or 3 and intentionally overexposing, AE Shift can help with that when needing to quickly get in the ballpark. So, if you plan to overexpose by one stop, setting the AE Shift to +1EV would do the trick.
 
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As far as I can tell, the AE Shift on my camera works on all profiles and all shooting modes where it's supposed to work.

But I strongly disagree with Alister. AE Shift is never a good idea because . . . it's still AUTO EXPOSURE!! You cannot shoot professionally and leave exposure decisions to the camera and/or allow it to change the exposure arbitrarily whenever it feels like it.
 
Doug Jensen said:
As far as I can tell, the AE Shift on my camera works on all profiles and all shooting modes where it's supposed to work.

But I strongly disagree with Alister. AE Shift is never a good idea because . . . it's still AUTO EXPOSURE!! You cannot shoot professionally and leave exposure decisions to the camera and/or allow it to change the exposure arbitrarily whenever it feels like it.
Click to expand...

Do you know where to report these kinds of bugs?
thx
 
Doug Jensen said:
But I strongly disagree with Alister. AE Shift is never a good idea because . . . it's still AUTO EXPOSURE!! You cannot shoot professionally and leave exposure decisions to the camera and/or allow it to change the exposure arbitrarily whenever it feels like it.
Click to expand...

I don't think Alister is recommending setting the camera to Auto Exposure. I think he's recommending the "PUSH AUTO" button (below the Iris button) that sets the iris but immediately puts it back into manual control. This can be used professionally with a gray card. Also, from my days shooting at a local news station, PUSH AUTO is good in run and gun situations where you need to get in the ballpark of correct exposure quickly, e.g. going from indoors to outdoors.

As to why I can't get AE shift to work on my FS5 is a mystery. I hadn't tried to use it at all until today. It's not a big deal to me, as I would rarely use it, but I wonder if others are having the same problem.
 
Thanks for the additional info on what Alister was saying. That makes more sense to hear he was speaking about PUSH AUTO.
If you want to save a Camera Profile and send it to me I'll load it up and see what happens on my camera. But please include some very specific steps I should follow to test it so we are on the same page.
 
Solved it! At least with my FS5. But I'm betting this will solve the OP's case too. It's a bit operator error and a lot of Sony's confusing menu structure.

AE Shift needs to be TURNED ON. If you have the level set to something above or below 0EV but have AE shift turned off it won't work (obviously).

But...and here's where it's silly...you can't turn AE Shift ON in the menu unless the camera is in Auto Iris or Full Auto. So the solution is to 1) hit the Iris button to put it in AUTO IRIS 2) go into the menu and turn AE Shift ON 3. Set the AE Shift Level to your desired EV. 4. Hit the Iris button again to return the camera to manual iris.

After that, hitting PUSH AUTO will work with the appropriate AE Shift.

I tried it on PP1 and PP8. It works on both.
 
BTW, it gets even more complicated on the FS7 because all the Auto Exposure settings are saved/recalled with a Scene File. So you really could have exposure compensation turned on for one profile and not the other. But that's not the case with the FS5. Of course, if the OP is using two different Camera Profiles to switch back and forth between PP1 and PP8, that could explain why exposure compensation is turned on for one and off for the other.
 
Thanks for the work around. I call it a bug because it would be great if the buttons just worked, instead of digging through menus to turn things on. Especially when the menus appear to work, but don't.
 
The AE SHIFT ON/OFF was greyed out because the iris was set to Manual. So the AE Shift value that I set had no effect on IRIS PUSH AUTO.
The work around, toggling IRIS to AUTO allowed me to turn AE SHIFT to ON. Now the AE SHIFT works with IRIS in manual and I PUSH AUTO on the IRIS.
I consider this typical crappy Sony software. You have to learn all these long sequences of button pushes to get simple features to work.
IMO it's redundant to have an AE-SHIFT ON/OFF when 0 is obviously the same thing as OFF. It reminds me of Sony's Digital Walkman's that have twice as many buttons as a iPod. They just don't give UI enough thought.
 
SamEd said:
The AE SHIFT ON/OFF was greyed out because the iris was set to Manual. So the AE Shift value that I set had no effect on IRIS PUSH AUTO.
The work around, toggling IRIS to AUTO allowed me to turn AE SHIFT to ON. Now the AE SHIFT works with IRIS in manual and I PUSH AUTO on the IRIS.
I consider this typical crappy Sony software. You have to learn all these long sequences of button pushes to get simple features to work.
IMO it's redundant to have an AE-SHIFT ON/OFF when 0 is obviously the same thing as OFF. It reminds me of Sony's Digital Walkman's that have twice as many buttons as a iPod. They just don't give UI enough thought.
Click to expand...

+1
 
I don't see anything wrong with having an ON/OFF menu and a companion menu that controls the level of whatever setting has been turned on/off. Almost everything on the camera works that way: zebras, peaking, markers, etc. You need to be able to turn something off and then come back to the exact same setting instantly when it is turned on again. The very concept of having a function that requires you to dial it up and down in order to turn it on and off is ridiculous. This isn't "crappy" design, it is just a case of getting frustrated and pointing fingers becuse there is inadequate understanding of the equipment.
 
Doug Jensen said:
I don't see anything wrong with having an ON/OFF menu and a companion menu that controls the level of whatever setting has been turned on/off. Almost everything on the camera works that way: zebras, peaking, markers, etc.
Click to expand...

Yes, and these are functions that most likely get mapped to a Function Button on the camera, because the process of scrolling through menu levels to turn critical functions like these on are off would cause you to miss a shot. Or at the very least waste your time.

By contrast, AE Shift, if you are going to be using it at all, might as well be left ON, because setting the camera to Manual Iris, by definition, turns it OFF.

Assigning a Function button to toggle AE Shift ON/OFF would be a waste given the small amount of these buttons on the FS5.
But let's say for the sake of argument I assign AE Shift to a function button. AE shift only works when Auto Iris is ON. And only amateurs use Auto Iris, as you mentioned in an earlier post. When in Manual Iris, AE Shift is grayed out, rendering the Function Button useless. So...in order to turn AE Shift ON or OFF, you have to hit 3 buttons, 1. Iris to engage Auto Iris, 2. Function Button for AE Shift, and 3. IRIS again to return to Manual Iris.

This is just not helpful.




Doug Jensen said:
This isn't "crappy" design, it is just a case of getting frustrated and pointing fingers becuse there is inadequate understanding of the equipment.
Click to expand...

I'm not pointing fingers. At least not in an angry way. It's more of a smiling, eye-rolling jab at Sony's menu structure, which is well-known for being frustrating.
I'm reminded of the Key and Peele TV sketch where two people are exchanging phone texts. The angry person is misinterpreting the happy person's texts. Every innocent text gets misunderstood to be something mean and accusatory. It's hilarious.

It is not inadequate understanding of the equipment. Not everyone uses the camera in the same way, which is the whole point of assignable function buttons. But I understand how AE Shift is most commonly used, and the few extra hoops just to engage it are not helpful.
 
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I'm glad to see you came back and edited your post. Saves me a lot of time replying. You can have the final word even though I disagree with most of it and I stand by my earlier comments.
 
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