Advice on settings for Sennheiser G3 to improve audio

[lasikdenver]

I have a Sony F3 and on outdoor shoots use Sennheiser G3 system for audio. I currently feed the receiver through the included XLR cable to audio in and find that with the included ME2 mic that I can set the transmitter to -6dB, the F3 to about midpoint (5) amplification and the receiver also to around -6dB to get reasonable levels as seen by the wave trace. Is it better to reduce the transmitter to -12 and increase the receiver to 0 dB or should I reduce the amplifier in camera to a lower setting and increase that of the other components? Would there be a significant benefit to a mixer, and if so, where would it go on a hand held rig? This week I also received a Sanken COS-11 which works with the G3 series and it seems a little "hotter" so again where would the best place to adjust for this be? I am mostly doing interviews but find the audio with the ME2 is not nearly as good as the in studio use of a Audio Technica 4053b mic with phantom power fed into the same video camera (F3) - which sounds amazing. This makes me think that the camera does well with recording/amplifying the audio, and it is weaker with the wireless small lapel mics. Therefore my question is what settings on the G3/mixer/mic would likely bring the audio quality up closer to that of the AT 4053b arena?

 

[paulears]

You've just got to find the optimum gain structure - based on the sound level into the sennheiser mic. The gain on the transmitter reduces the preamp gain if the signal going in distorts - so the meter on the transmitter is a good guide - you want it to get near the maximum level, but no further on the peaks. Then at the camera end to give you enough control, you want the possibility to have the gain control on your G3 at around the same level as you find with a similar mic connected direct to the camera with a cable. Then on the receiver you can balance the output to get the level right on the camera. If you add more attenuation to the transmitter, it has to be matched with extra gain at the receiver and this brings up the noise in the RF link, so using the available dynamic range of the RF system is pretty important - just don't drive the transmitter too much because they sound quite rough then. You're looking to set the level to cope with likely peaks, and then provide enough output at the receiver so that disconnecting the radio system and swapping it for a typical handheld mic doesn't require you to suddenly have to turn the camera gain right up, or right down.

 

[Rick R]

I currently don't have access to my G3 system, but I recall the SK100 transmitter's sensitivity somewhere in the mid -20s dB range for 'pro lavs'. The transmitter's AF peak yellow LED should illuminate only on a few of the very loudest peaks.
Furthermore, I set the EK100 portable receiver's AF output level at -12 or -18dB feeding a SD mixer @ mic level. Some run line level with the EK100 portable recv., but one needs to push a mixer's or recorder's line level gain to excess which can induce gain noise.

 

[lasikdenver]

Thank you both, very helpful. I have the mic with the ME 2 now at -12 dB or alternatively, the Sanken at -18 to -20 dB on transmit; with the receiver at -12 dB I am getting much improved audio. I am monitoring with headphones from an external (Samurai) recorder and think that the professional Sanken mic sounds better, but it is not dramatic to my untrained ears. it really is much better at post. The levels on my receiver and camera recorder now closely match those from the wired mic with phantom power, so hopefully this is close to ideal. I am still wondering if I added a Mix Pre-D (or something else?) between the receiver and the camera, would it give much additional improvement? Again, I appreciate the help very much.

 

[John Willett]

I have a Sony F3 and on outdoor shoots use Sennheiser G3 system for audio. I currently feed the receiver through the included XLR cable to audio in and find that with the included ME2 mic that I can set the transmitter to -6dB, the F3 to about midpoint (5) amplification and the receiver also to around -6dB to get reasonable levels as seen by the wave trace. Is it better to reduce the transmitter to -12 and increase the receiver to 0 dB or should I reduce the amplifier in camera to a lower setting and increase that of the other components? Would there be a significant benefit to a mixer, and if so, where would it go on a hand held rig? This week I also received a Sanken COS-11 which works with the G3 series and it seems a little "hotter" so again where would the best place to adjust for this be? I am mostly doing interviews but find the audio with the ME2 is not nearly as good as the in studio use of a Audio Technica 4053b mic with phantom power fed into the same video camera (F3) - which sounds amazing. This makes me think that the camera does well with recording/amplifying the audio, and it is weaker with the wireless small lapel mics. Therefore my question is what settings on the G3/mixer/mic would likely bring the audio quality up closer to that of the AT 4053b arena?

The transmitter sensitivity should be set to match the loudness of the voice - there is no simple answer to this.

The transmitter sensitivity should be set so that the transmitter modulates fully, but without overmodulating and causing distortion. The louder the signal the lower it should be, a quieter signal would be set louder.

Ideally set the receiver output high and connect it to the line-in. If you can't do this, turn it down to mic. level and connect to the mic. input. The quality will normally be slightly lower connected to the mic. input as the signal will be going through amplifier circuits.

This is all explained in the User Manual.

 

[lasikdenver]

Let me try to ask a better question now that I have reviewed all that I can find on this topic in various threads. As I understand it, the Sennheiser G3 would be best to send as a line in to my F3 camera, but many have problems, including me, establishing a high enough level for this to work. It seems fine with MIC levels but I understand that this will use the camera PRE-amplifier which is not the greatest. Therefore, I have considering adding a Mix Pre-D so that I can send out a cleaner line feed to the camera. My question is that if as I have also read, the camera in Line mode merely adds a "pad" to bring the line level back down to mic level, then in this circumstance, is adding the mixer going to add much to the audio quality? Also, I am not recording any music, only dialogue. I understand that a good mic, mic position, and transmitter settings all play an even more important role, but I am trying to understand if having a mixer in this situation would be much help. I do not want to use a separate recorder and sync in post.

 

[Rick R]

"I have considering adding a Mix Pre-D so that I can send out a cleaner line feed to the camera. My question is that if as I have also read, the camera in Line mode merely adds a "pad" to bring the line level back down to mic level, then in this circumstance, is adding the mixer going to add much to the audio quality?"
- I'm not familiar with that particular camera's audio architecture, but your are correct, most just add a pad to the mic pre for line level.. and this includes most of the budget portable recorders as well. A MixPre would help some, but would not make a day and night difference, at least with a wireless.

 

[Bruce Watson]

My question is that if as I have also read, the camera in Line mode merely adds a "pad" to bring the line level back down to mic level, then in this circumstance, is adding the mixer going to add much to the audio quality?

What a MixPre-D brings to the party is 1) excellent preamps, 2) excellent limiters, and 3) control. The preamps will undoubtedly be a little cleaner and a little quieter than the F3's preamps, because SD focuses on this and this alone. It's their job and their reputation. The limiters give you some overhead so that if unexpectedly loud things happen (an actor really gets into a part and becomes louder than rehearsal, not at all uncommon) you still get good clean sound. The control is only important if you have a sound guy who's able to rid the levels as required. If it's just you, that means it's easy to set and control the channels individually (better meters), but since you won't be riding the levels, it's the limiters that will be more important to you.

But... will adding a MixPre-D to your system make a radical difference to your sound? Probably not. It's not going to sound any better than the mic. But it will make it easier to hear what that mic souncs like, and the better the mic you use, the better this unit will sound. IOW, it'll make an incremental improvement if you use it correctly. And if those limiters save you even once, the unit instantly pays for itself.