Advice for GH1/DSLR beginner!

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asteele10

Active member
I just up grated to the GH1. I'm starting production for my final student project video this Saturday. I'm new to this camera and just wanted to know if anyone could give me some basic begginer advice (or a link to this).

For example: What things should I watch out for? Commonly made noob mistakes? What settings to avoid? Etc.

I want a real vibrant an crisp image. I wanna shoot on 1080 24p right? I prefer the 30f/s but it dosent have it at 1080.

Whats the best settings for low light to avoid noise?

Any advice in general would help!! Thanks!
 
The threads in the workflow section by JDS and the Luminous Landscape reviews are quite good places to look. That and just searching this forum should give you quite a good head start. Good luck!
 
Thanks for the help. Keep it coming! I want to shoot most of my film in 1080 to get a better look. But for some motion shots I was going to use 720 to avoid the motion tracking/blur that you get in 1080. Would there be any problems with this? Would the 2 shots look noticeably different?

Also, I was thinking of using my DVX and a boom mic to record sound on to a DV tape while filming with the GH1. Would this work? Thanks again
 
With 1080p mode you will need to remove the pulldown (see stickies in post section) to get it to work in post. 720p on the Gh1 is 60p (or 30p for motion jpeg) if you shoot AVCHD which is 60p you can convert it to 24p in post pretty easily. I don't know what you were saying about blur, etc...24p looks great, its what films are shot at...
 
I think its called the rolling shutter. When you pan side to side fast you get some lag/distortion. I read somewhere that shooting in 720 will help avoid this. Is that true?

Can some one direct me to a link that addresses working with 1080/720 GH1 footage in post beginning with the basics? That would be a big help.

Any advice with using my DVX as a sound system and matching it with the GH1 footage in post? Thanks..
 
asteele10 said:
I think its called the rolling shutter. When you pan side to side fast you get some lag/distortion. I read somewhere that shooting in 720 will help avoid this. Is that true?
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Yes, very true. Rolling shutter is a non-issue when shooting 720p60 (make sure it's 60p, NOT 30p).

The infamous "mud" problem (wherein the footage turns to mush when shooting something with high detail and/or high motion) is also far less severe in 720p.

Can some one direct me to a link that addresses working with 1080/720 GH1 footage in post beginning with the basics? That would be a big help.
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It's all in the workflow sub-forum, which is linked at the top of the GH1 main forum.

Please note that what editing software you choose will affect the workflow somewhat.

Any advice with using my DVX as a sound system and matching it with the GH1 footage in post? Thanks..
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Would you be willing to consider buying a portable sound recorder, such as the Zoom H4N? You will find it to be extremely worthwhile. A dedicated sound recorder will offer better sound quality than the ones built into camcorders. Since the DVX100 is a DV camcorder, you would have to capture all of the footage that you're using for sound only, which is a huge time-waster IMO. A portable sound recorder is also less bulky and less awkward to use than a prosumer camcorder (for recording sound only).

If you're editing with Final Cut Pro, then you can buy a plug-in called PluralEyes, which will sync your double-system sound automatically. Otherwise, you'll have to do it manually and visually by matching the peaks of the waveforms as they are displayed on the timeline. And always use a clapper (either a proper board or just your hands) whenever you can.

BTW, why do you prefer 30p over 24p? Just curious...
 
Also, make sure that you use ND filters if you want shallow depth of field outdoors in sunlight.

If you're shooting 720p60, do NOT use a shutter speed less than 1/60th second. Doing so will cause the camera to actually shoot 30p, even though the files will be 60p (it just duplicates frames).

You'll want to keep shutter speed constant throughout the shoot. You'll be controlling aperture primarily to achieve the DOF that you want. That leaves ISO as your main factor for adjusting exposure. People have found ISO 400 to be the best in terms of noise, apparently. If you want to keep ISO as constant as possible, then you will have to rely on ND filters to control exposure.

To avoid noise in low light, just avoid shooting low light. What I mean is that you should light scenes in low-light environments as best as you can. The less light that you have, the higher ISO you have to use to expose properly. The higher ISOs are noisy.
 
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The majority of my shooting is done in 720 60p because it looks far better than 1080 24p especially when I'm moving the camera very fast. Plus I don't have to deal with pull-down.

For low light performance, what I did to make it better was to purchase the f/1.7, 20mm lens. Not only is it significantly more sensitive to light than the 14-140 lens, it also constantly auto focuses just like that lens although slightly slower and nosier. At $400, it costs a lot and I was constantly debating with myself if I should take the plunge but eventually I couldn't resist. It's fully worth it.

When shooting outdoors, the intelligent Auto mode works very well but indoors your better off keeping it in manual because once you come close to a window with light coming in, it won’t be so intelligent.
 
Thanks guys.

Would you be willing to consider buying a portable sound recorder, such as the Zoom H4N? You will find it to be extremely worthwhile. A dedicated sound recorder will offer better sound quality than the ones built into camcorders. Since the DVX100 is a DV camcorder, you would have to capture all of the footage that you're using for sound only, which is a huge time-waster IMO. A portable sound recorder is also less bulky and less awkward to use than a prosumer camcorder (for recording sound only).
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For this project I only have 2 1-2 minute scenes that require sound so I'm not so worried about that right now.

BTW, why do you prefer 30p over 24p? Just curious...
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Well with my DVX I always prefer 30p. I guess I felt that 24p was too jumpy sometimes and could get distracting. I assume it will be the same with the GH1 but maybe not.


The majority of my shooting is done in 720 60p because it looks far better than 1080 24p especially when I'm moving the camera very fast. Plus I don't have to deal with pull-down.
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Why do you say 720 60p looks better? I haven't really looked at the 720 60p much but I thought that 1080 was in most situations superior?
 
Also, my film is supposed to occur over the course of one day. Its going to take 3 weeks to film. Am I able to use the camera settings/filters to get the lighting to match on different days?
To make a cloudy day look sunny and vice versa?

What would you suggest?
 
asteele10 said:
Well with my DVX I always prefer 30p. I guess I felt that 24p was too jumpy sometimes and could get distracting. I assume it will be the same with the GH1 but maybe not.
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24p looks like 24p no matter what camera you use. It's only logical. The reason why I ask is because your opinion is an odd one. One of the major reasons why the DVX100 was so "revolutionary" when it was released (thus spawning this very Web site) was because it was the first widely affordable prosumer 24p MiniDV camcorder. The big deal about 24p, why every filmmaker demands it nowadays (you have no idea of the endless complaining about the 5D Mark II until Canon finally recently announced a 24p firmware update for next year), is because 24p is part of the "film look," since virtually all movies shot on film are 24 fps. Do you find the movies that you see in theaters to be too "jumpy" as well?

The general consensus about 24p stutter is that it looks bad in scenes of high action, either in terms of fast camera movement or subject movement. If you're shooting stuff that makes 24p stutter look bad (i.e. high action), then you shouldn't be using the 1080p mode anyway.

Why do you say 720 60p looks better? I haven't really looked at the 720 60p much but I thought that 1080 was in most situations superior?
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1080p will only look slightly sharper (due to the higher resolution), a difference that you'll only see on a large screen. Were you under the impression that it was superior in some other way?

IMO, 1080p is not necessarily the best choice for general use, because the far greater rolling shutter and mud issues will often make the quality much worse than 720p, unless you're primarily shooting a lot of shallow DOF shots with very little camera movement. Some people here will disagree with me, but 1080p is a gamble whenever you try to shoot something outside of its happy zone.
 
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asteele10 said:
Also, my film is supposed to occur over the course of one day. Its going to take 3 weeks to film. Am I able to use the camera settings/filters to get the lighting to match on different days?
To make a cloudy day look sunny and vice versa?

What would you suggest?
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The best thing to do is plan your shoot very carefully. You might be able to control exposure and color correct to get the shots to match casually, to the untrained eye. But there really is no substitute for shooting at the right times of day.

The issue is really the quality of light. At different times of day, the sun is at different angles, making the light more or less harsh and more or less cold or warm. Mid-day light is very harsh and cold. Some cinematographers and photographers consider it to be the worst light and prefer not to shoot in such conditions. The sun's angle will also have a noticeable effect on the shadows on your subject. On an overcast day, your shots will look inherently very different because the light is very diffuse (i.e. soft) with almost no shadows, and your subjects will look less vibrant, IMO.

Take a look at Richard Linklater's Before Sunset for inspiration. The whole movie plays in real time late in the day (before sunset), and it was shot in 15 days. This is a 90-minute movie. Compared to that, your production should be a piece of cake.

It's not a big issue if you're primarily indoors, though.
 
Do you find the movies that you see in theaters to be too "jumpy" as well?
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Ha I guess not. I understand the big deal with 24p. When I shoot a cinematic piece with actors I usually use 24p. But I like to shoot documentary/verite style so I usually use 30p so it feels more real.

I want this film to look very vibrant and crisp. Like a music video or a commercial. What settings would you suggest. I think I'm going to stick with 720 24p since you believe 1080 is not much different. Most people will see this on the web anyway.

Thanks for the lighting tips. The film goes through an entire day so we need all hours of lighting. And I guess some days start sunny and end a little cloudy which would be fine. Would you suggest getting a basic filter kit? I don't have one yet. Thanks!

Also, I was thinking of shooting 16x9 any reason why this is a bad idea? Thanks!
 
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asteele10 said:
Ha I guess not. I understand the big deal with 24p. When I shoot a cinematic piece with actors I usually use 24p. But I like to shoot documentary/verite style so I usually use 30p so it feels more real.

I want this film to look very vibrant and crisp. Like a music video or a commercial. What settings would you suggest. I think I'm going to stick with 720 24p since you believe 1080 is not much different. Most people will see this on the web anyway.

Thanks for the lighting tips. The film goes through an entire day so we need all hours of lighting. And I guess some days start sunny and end a little cloudy which would be fine. Would you suggest getting a basic filter kit? I don't have one yet. Thanks!
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There is no 720/24p...if you want a "video" like look in terms of framerate 720/60p is perfect for you.

Let me explain briefly about the GH1's different video options, other people did but maybe I can do a better job here...

The GH1 has 3 video modes of any consequence (although in my opinion the first two are all you'll really need.)

AVCHD 1080/24p (FHD)
AVCHD 720/60p (SHD)
MOTIONJPEG 720/30p (MOTION JPEG [set in the menu above FHD, SHD, where it should read AVCHD currently])

That's it...no other resolutions, or framerates. It can never shoot 24p in 720 mode, never shoot 60p in 1080 mode, never shoot 30p in AVCHD mode, never shoot 60p or 24p in Motion JPEG mode....etc.

Let me now explain the different benefits/problems with these modes.

Lets begin by discussing the strengths and weaknesses of the the two codecs the camera uses (as they are implemented here): AVCHD, and MOTION JPEG.

AVCHD: is a heavily compressed, modern codec, and does a great job on a lot of cameras, like the HMC-150, and even consumer stuff. The way AVCHD works the way all compression does (although its technical details are unique): fundamentally it compresses data by scanning the frame for changes, and only recording the changes made. Normally this works really well, and gives you great quality with small file sizes... However, the GH1's implementation of AVCHD is not great.

Cameras with poor implementations of AVCHD, like the GH1, suffer from a problem known as "mud" which is the codec visibly breaking down when areas of high detail are changing very rapidly (with rapid camera or subject movement) and is very visually disturbing, with dozens of blocky pieces of crap (macro blocks, the areas in which the codec scans for changes) jumping out of your footage for all to see.

As I said before, this is caused by two things: movement, and detail. The more movement there is in a frame (again, either camera movement or subject movement) the harder it is for the codec to keep up, and the more likely the image is to break down. The more detail there is in the frame (especially with things like heavily forested areas) the less movement it takes for the codec to break down, sometimes next to none.

Also, those wishing to edit in Final Cut Pro, or another NLE that does not support native editing of AVCHD, must first transcode their footage to another format, a process which ties up your computer for quite awhile and results in large file sizes. However, for those previously used to transcoding footage from P2 or SxS cards, this is not a new step, and the ability to archive tiny AVCHD card data for backup, rather than full size footage, is more than worth the extra transcoding wait time, in my opinion.

Let's now address the two different AVCHD modes on the camera:

AVCHD 1080/24p:
Advantages:
This mode looks great, it shoots full 1080p HD, which is 1920 x 1080 pixels, and puts out a wonderful image. It also shoots 24p, which is an advantage for those going for a film look. The lower framerate allows you to select a lower shutter speed (I usually don't go below 1/50...vs 1/60 with 720p) an advantage in low light.

Neutral:
You also always have the option to downscale it to 720p in post, which can let you stabilize your footage or crop it to remove say, a light, with almost no detail loss. This is also an advantage if you'll be mixing footage from different cameras and are unsure what resolutions you'll be capturing...1080p gives you the most flexibility.

Disadvantages:
This mode is the most likely to have a hard time recording large amounts of motion (again effected by detail in the scene as well) without breaking down. Therefore for scenes/films with lots of camera movement or action might not be well suited to this mode. Lastly, in order to achieve 24p, this mode actually records a 24p image hidden inside a 60i stream or wrapper. The process by which this is achieved is known as "pulldown." In order to properly edit the footage at 24p without strange interlacing artifacts and other problems, the pulldown must be removed in post-production (there are a variety of different methods on a sticky in the workflow section,) which is a time consuming process (for your computer, but not for you.)

AVCHD 720/60p:
Advantages:
720/60p footage does not suffer quite as badly from the motion/detail problems of the GH1's AVCHD. It can handle large amounts of movement pretty well. It also reduces the effects of "skew" caused by the CMOS sensor's rolling shutter, I believe thanks to its higher framerate. However, skew (vertical lines in the footage leaning as you pan rapidly, or a jello like effect when you quickly waggle the camera back and forth at long focal lengths) is not nearly as bad in general on the GH1 as it is on the other video DSLRs...but if you're having a problem with it 720/60p will help. Also since it is recording 60p, it has the capability of being converted to beautiful slow-motion in post (if being edited in a 30p or 24p timeline.) This works best at 1/120 shutter speed but is possible with the 1/60 shutter speed you are likely to be shooting at most of the time, if you decide later you want to use slow motion but didn't know on set.

Neutral:
The 60p of the camera can be easily converted to 24p in post by a number of methods outlined in a sticky in the workflow section of the forum...these methods range from the very quick (instant) but somewhat poor quality (a subtle stuttering effect in clips with lots of lateral movement) to the longer (requires transcoding again) but nearly perfect. When using this mode I typically will do the instant method for most footage, and the longer methods for individual shots I know I want to use that don't look as good...read more about it in the sticky.

Disadvantages:
60p has a stigma attached to it as it produces very smooth footage, evocative of cheap television sitcoms shot on video. However, as mentioned above, it can be converted to 24p (or 30p) in post production. Also, the 720p mode is, of course, 720p: recording at only 1280 x 720 pixels, which might not seem like a huge disadvantage in each direction vs 1080p, but when you multiply the numbers to get resolution you realize that it has less than half of the visual resolution of 1080p. Half.

At last:

In MOTION JPEG mode the camera does not have the "mud" problem, and the codec will not break down due to detail and movement, because MOTION JPEG compresses data a different way. However, MOTION JPEG has a lower quality of footage overall, and looks more compressed, with less detail. To me it looks a bit like cell phone footage, and I avoid it like the plague.

MOTION JPEG 720/30p:
Advantages:
Does not break down in areas of high movement. Does not require transcoding to edit (which means smaller file sizes in post if you were going to be transcoding AVCHD anyway instead of editing natively.) Does not require a fast computer to edit natively. I believe you can also use lower shutter speeds (possibly as slow as 1/30 but don't take my word for it) without dropping frames, an advantage in low light.

Neutral:
Is a very old codec that's been around in one form of another for a looooong time (early 90's I believe.) You are limited to 30p, which CANNOT easily be converted to 24p in post, looks noticeably smoother and has a similar stigma to 60p attached to it, and is not capable of creating slow motion.

Disadvantages:
MOTION JPEG has a really cruddy look to it. It does not resolve detail well, and is prone to artifacting. I personally would never shoot MOTION JPEG on this camera when you have two (mostly) great AVCHD options to choose from.




Well...that's it. I think the last point of confusion I want to briefly address is when people talk about "detail" in 1080p vs 720p.

We need to make a distinction here. With it's higher visual resolution the 1080p mode will give you a more detailed image...plain and simple. However, because the 720p codec performs better on clips with lots of changing things happening it will do better with high detail SUBJECTS without breaking down, even though you might end up seeing less of this detail. The whole reason for this is that because it is recording less detail in these high-detail areas, it has less minute little changes to record when you move the camera or when the subject moves...thusly making the codec less prone to break down...all because it was recording less detail in the first place.
 
asteele10 said:
I just up grated to the GH1. I'm starting production for my final student project video this Saturday. I'm new to this camera and just wanted to know if anyone could give me some basic begginer advice (or a link to this). For example: What things should I watch out for? Commonly made noob mistakes? What settings to avoid? Etc. I want a real vibrant an crisp image. I wanna shoot on 1080 24p right? I prefer the 30f/s but it dosent have it at 1080. Whats the best settings for low light to avoid noise? Any advice in general would help!! Thanks!
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Hi Austin: Welcome to DVXuser.com; glad you finally followed my links to here from CreativeCOW.net.

Note to everyone here: Several days ago I provided Austin with many of the same links you're generously giving him again. I don't know if he's a poor reader or what, but he keeps asking the same questions over & over again.

The first link I provided Austin was the one for the GH1 FAQ here, which as you know also leads to most of the other links which have been mentioned in this thread, too.

Not trying to be harsh, Austin, but a better use of your time these past few days might have been to start using your GH1 to practice some of the advice you've already been given, preferably _before_ the day of your first big "real" GH1 shoot -- and take your brief test clips all the way through editing/post and compression for streaming on the web & DVD -- _before_ you ask more redundant questions on multiple threads in multiple online communities. The latter isn't the best use of anyone's time, including yours.

Start shooting, make mistakes and learn from them. Re-read the advice & info resources you've already been referred to and -- because of your fresh GH1 experience -- you'll realize new insights you didn't grok the first time you read them. Then go out & shoot & edit & publish more video. Repeat until you kinda sorta know what you're doing. Then, finally, you'll eventually realize you don't know squat, and you'll happily start all over again with a new perspective. Because that's the rewarding part of video production.

Good shooting!
 
Ben's walkthrough of the video options is pretty good but fails to mention that the PAL model differs though like this:

AVCHD 1080/25p (FHD)
AVCHD 720/50p (SHD)
MOTIONJPEG 720/30p (MOTION JPEG [set in the menu above FHD, SHD, where it should read AVCHD currently])

Basically the MJPEG mode is pretty useless in PAL countries for anything but web videos.

As 1080 25p is evenly distributed in the 50i stream there is no pulldown problem.
 
Ben_B said:
The way AVCHD works the way all compression does (although its technical details are unique): fundamentally it compresses data by scanning the frame for changes, and only recording the changes made.
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Not all compression works that way. It's only true for interframe codecs. MPEG codecs like AVCHD (H.264) compress both interframe and intraframe.

However, skew (vertical lines in the footage leaning as you pan rapidly, or a jello like effect when you quickly waggle the camera back and forth at long focal lengths) is not nearly as bad in general on the GH1 as it is on the other video DSLRs...
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Simply not true. The GH1's rolling shutter artifacts in 24p mode are exactly the same as the 7D's 24p mode and only a hair better than the 5D's 30p. There are test clips in these forums that demonstrate this.

This means that when shooting 24p, you have to be careful about camera movement not only because of the mud problem.

Also, the 720p mode is, of course, 720p: recording at only 1280 x 720 pixels, which might not seem like a huge disadvantage in each direction vs 1080p, but when you multiply the numbers to get resolution you realize that it has less than half of the visual resolution of 1080p. Half.
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No, the numbers don't mean very much. Barry Green has shot resolution charts in 1080p and has shown that the effective resolution is only about 700 lines or less. The 720p mode is NOT half of that. If it were, then it would be worse than standard definition. But the GH1's 720p is clearly better than standard definition. So the comment about "visual resolution" is simply not true at all. If we're talking about nominal resolution, then yes, it's absolutely true.


However, MOTION JPEG has a lower quality of footage overall, and looks more compressed, with less detail. To me it looks a bit like cell phone footage, and I avoid it like the plague.

...

MOTION JPEG has a really cruddy look to it. It does not resolve detail well, and is prone to artifacting. I personally would never shoot MOTION JPEG on this camera when you have two (mostly) great AVCHD options to choose from.
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There are highly conflicting opinions about this. The best thing to do is perform tests for oneself.

I believe you can also use lower shutter speeds (possibly as slow as 1/30 but don't take my word for it) without dropping frames, an advantage in low light.
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It's true. Actually, you can shoot even lower shutter speeds, such as 1/2 second, but that'll drop the effective frame rate to 2 fps. 1/30th is the lowest shutter speed that will allow for 30 fps. But most people avoid 1/30th like the plague because it doesn't look good to them. Too much motion blur.
 
Ben- thanks a lot for that walk through. Thats a huge help and made a lot of sense.

Peter- I hate being the guy who posts questions that I can find myself but I just got the camera Wednesday and was planning to shoot Friday and needed some basic info fast.
Thankfully rain postponed my shoot and and I will have a few more days to learn the camera.

In response to Ben, is it appropriate to combine 720p footage with 1080 in the same video. Assuming that I convert the 720 60p footage to 24p?

Also, by disabling the sound record function on the camera will I use less space on my SD card? Thanks guys.
 
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