Adventures in Classic Digtial Video Cameras

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This is it, the one we’ve all been waiting for! Testing old cameras that have legendary reputations against the ones that just couldn’t grab our hearts no matter what the specs said!


The main reason for doing this camera shootout, would be to better understand what it is that makes a camera good.


We can’t do this alone, so we need any one who is interested to help. Cameras, lenses, studios, lights, time! Not to mention the prep work and figuring out the best way to make a meaningful study of these cameras.

Any thoughts, write them here.
 
The challenge.

What is objectively “good”? Any camera can look good with the right person behind it. That makes it difficult to understand why one camera is better than anothee with a limited number of setups.

Cameras are constantly changing and hopefully getting better. Comparing okder cameras to newer ones is not exactly necessary, and runs the risk of taking away that wistful nostalgia.

So, how do we create a situation that allows us to get through a day, striving for some objectivity and ending up with a better understanding of what makes a good image?
 
How old are you defining as classic?!

I'm curious to see if there is any purpose to returning to older digital cameras. I may have some nostalgia for the experience at the time of running around with a DVX100 or an XL1, but watching those clips now, the image is hardly something I'd want to return to. Same thing with all of the music videos I shot on 5D's...it's a look but not exactly "classic".

For me, the true nostalgia on the video side of things is for tube cameras (pre mid-80's). Have yet to see that look properly re-created with a plug-in.
 
I wouldn't know how to make such comparisons "fair" - I really don't think such is possible :/

Coincidentally, this past summer we shot a project with all the types of cameras mentioned in this thread so far - Panasonic HDX900, RCA Vidicon tube camera (I think CC-001 or CC-02 but don't remember exact model), along with a modern state of the art Reds with both modern and vintage glass. The contrasts are quite entertaining in the piece, it's one of the funnest projects I've done in a while and the vintage equipment was a big part of that - although Michael Keaton and Owen Wilson helped, those guys are great.

https://www.ifc.com/shows/documentary-now/full-episodes/season-03/episode-01/batsht-valley-part-1
 
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While i have never shot with tube, i love the look! The light trails are pretty fantastic.
 
nothing said:
I wouldn't know how to make such comparisons "fair" - I really don't think such is possible :/

Coincidentally, this past summer we shot a project with all the types of cameras mentioned in this thread so far - Panasonic HDX900, RCA Vidicon tube camera (I think CC-001 or CC-02 but don't remember exact model), along with a modern state of the art Reds with both modern and vintage glass. The contrasts are quite entertaining in the piece, it's one of the funnest projects I've done in a while and the vintage equipment was a big part of that.

https://www.ifc.com/shows/documentary-now/full-episodes/season-03/episode-01/batsht-valley-part-1
Click to expand...

Ha! That is awesome!
 
nothing said:
I wouldn't know how to make such comparisons "fair" - I really don't think such is possible :/

Coincidentally, this past summer we shot a project with all the types of cameras mentioned in this thread so far - Panasonic HDX900, RCA Vidicon tube camera (I think CC-001 or CC-02 but don't remember exact model), along with a modern state of the art Reds with both modern and vintage glass. The contrasts are quite entertaining in the piece, it's one of the funnest projects I've done in a while and the vintage equipment was a big part of that.

https://www.ifc.com/shows/documentary-now/full-episodes/season-03/episode-01/batsht-valley-part-1
Click to expand...

Sounds like fun working with so much old gear. Still have old Sony and Canon handycams (and a 'really nice' JVC S-VHS player haha).

The subject matter kind of reminds of this:

Which shows that one doesn't need a guru (or to be part of any organized collective in order to better understand themselves and to find meaning in life). At the same time, the philosophical teachings including meditation, yoga, and eating real organic food are useful tools in becoming self-aware and healing oneself and others. Most important: thinking for oneself and doing deep research to find the truth, wherever it leads, vs. blindly listening to what appear to be gurus, experts, or authority figures or sources. After learning so much they've been told their entire lives isn't true, the internet and social media have really helped people learn the tools to think and find the truth for themselves.

James, here's an old Pansonic TM700 I tried to make look useful. Even with a decent mic to try to 'trick the brain' into thinking the image was better, I think the 80D is as far back as I'd go for a useful camera (except for perhaps brief retro shots):
Footage is treated- doesn't look like that coming out of the camera.
 
Very nice microphone!


Oof! I never knew what to do with the handy cam shape. I find the dslr to be a great improvement, sadly the mirrorless cameras are again insufferably bad ergonomics that make me almost miss the handycam days!

I’ll have to watch again with good headphones and see how well the brain trick worked.
 
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@nothing

What was your take away using multiple camera systems and tech?
 
James0b57 said:
@nothing

What was your take away using multiple camera systems and tech?
Click to expand...

The main takeaway is that there is a reason we don't use the old stuff more, it really can't do anything that the new stuff can't do other than a realistic portrayal of the flaws inherent in each system. That's exactly why we used the old stuff, for the flaws that can't be reproduced perfectly in post, so it worked well for us, but the lack of resolution on all the old stuff was so very apparent and would have been an immediate show-stopper for any other use - I had almost forgotten how soft and blurry DV was. That and the utter lack of light sensitivity of the tube camera were rather astonishing given what we are accustomed to today.

With all the pixel-peeping done around here, I think many forget just how good we have it these days. I'm heading into a weeklong pilot with an Alexa Mini and I guarantee the old gear won't cross my mind once ;)
 
I occasionally miss the abstract look of standard definition cameras, and the smear of analogue televisions.

There was a quality to that I began to appreciate. It allowed for composing almost entirely with blocks of color and contrast.

I’ve always found HD to be my least favorite resolution. Has a false detail look to it. The compromised resolution. Niether abstract, nor truly detailed, it is a resolution for practicality.
 

A


B


C

Three generations of cheap digital video.

Video quality aside, anyone like have a favorite set? A,B, or C?
 
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A couple candidate cameras:

1. Varicam
This was possibly the first and perhaps only “mojo” digital video camera.

2. DVX100
Because of this forum and what it meant to would be film makers.

3. F35
Because it is the only discontinued digital camera to make a comeback based on image quality alone.

4. Alexa
Because it has been the best since it was released in April, 2010, 9 years ago!

5. 5D mkII
Perhaps because it was all an accident, this camera stayed relavent even after the mkIIi replaced it. Later it would be the Magic Lantern camera and get raw recording. Ergonomics and being the first full frame video camera, and the poster child for the so called dslr recolution eclipsing the dvx100 not just in popularity, but in it’s effect on the art and industry.

I have access to all of these cameras, except the dvx. I may pick one up if no one has one available.
 
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Black magic and Red are not going to be considered classics at this time. Good cameras, for sure, but just going to single them out to keep things manageable.

They are cameras that have been pixel peeped and fanboyed into stigma. The brand name has overshadowed any specific model, and they would be going up against cameras from Arri, Sony, Canon, and Panasonic. So the waters are pretty muddy. Red brought 4K, and brought the price of cinema to an affordable level, and BM furthered that trend, but... hey, look, Toyota made the camry. A good car that can outperform a Ford Model T, but... yeah, you get the idea.

They can be considered reference or counterpart cameras, so if we can get our hands on them, we’ll throw them in the mix. If you can think of a digital video camera that I missed, but you think we should celebrate as a classic (even something forgotten and overlooked), share your thoughts about.

Just wanted to throw that out there before anyone wanted to start recommending black magic or red, as i am sure there are good arguments for both.
 
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anyone know if the inage from the DVX100 was different external or to tape?
 
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