ADR Recording Format

T

tomflint

Member
Hi all,

I'm about to go into a session of ADR with my actors for the first time and I was wondering what to record the audio onto..

I shot the film on HD Mini DV tapes using a Canon XHA1, and the audio was recorded mostly with an Oktava MK-012 mic fed into the XLR inputs on the camera. Would it be okay to record the ADR inside the studio using the same method. In other words, could I just bring my camera and the mic, and record the ADR in the studio onto a Mini DV tape? I've read a lot about how to approach ADR but I don't have Pro Tools (which everyone seems to be using). I only have Soundtrack Pro and FInal Cut which I'm planning to use once I import the ADR audio files into my computer.

Any feedback on this would be much appreciated!
 
You could record to tape using your camera, except that you don't get uncompressed audio and your sound will have to be captured realtime. Plus, it will have to be converted upon import. You want to record audio that is 16-bit/48kHz AIFF or WAV. Straight to your computer is a good way to go.

Plus, you'll need some sort of video playback for the actors to reference if you are doing actual ADR. You can use the VO tool in FCP to record while watching playback. You could also use STP to do the same thing, probably a better option. You'll need an audio interface for your computer to do this, though.

If at all possible, find someone local who has a ProTools suite and a proper recording space (and the know-how to use them properly). It's not just the mic and recording device that matter. You really need to be in a properly-treated space to record or your dialog will be more difficult to match in post.
 
I will definitely push you to follow Alex's last advice. ADR is a pain when you know how to do it. The way you are planning to do it is basically to record wild lines and hope they fit in. They wont.

You don't actually need to play back video to do ADR. I used to but found it was distracting to most actors. Their performance got all screwed up looking at them selves and they were always playing "catch up" with their lips. I found it much better to have them listen to the production line and then repeat it. The timing was much better and the performance was also better. And it's a lot easier to set up.

You really need some kind of DAW to do ADR. There are a few for the Mac that have free trials or are very cheap.
REAPER is one.
HINDENBERG is another.

TRAVERSO is another.

PT is the curent film standard but you don't need to go there for ADR.
 
I think Dr. Sound explains ADR extremely well in his post:

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=270918

I had an opportunity to sit in on a seminar with one of the best ADR mixers in the bizz and one of his key points was a good ADR mixer will always move the mic between cues (if needed) and get off his/her damn seat! Take the time to really position the mic so it really blends well. He also uses a 3 mic setup. The performance by the talent must match as well. For scheduling purposes, you can get through about 9-10 ADR cues per hour.

EDIT: Furthermore, another thing he mentioned was to not monitor in stereo when recording ADR! Use a Center speaker -- that's how the ADR will most likely be heard anyway. The point is, mimic what the audience will hear.
 
ryanjf said:
I think Dr. Sound explains ADR extremely well in his post:

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=270918

I had an opportunity to sit in on a seminar with one of the best ADR mixers in the bizz and one of his key points was a good ADR mixer will always move the mic between cues (if needed) and get off his/her damn seat! Take the time to really position the mic so it really blends well. He also uses a 3 mic setup. The performance by the talent must match as well. For scheduling purposes, you can get through about 9-10 ADR cues per hour.

EDIT: Furthermore, another thing he mentioned was to not monitor in stereo when recording ADR! Use a Center speaker -- that's how the ADR will most likely be heard anyway. The point is, mimic what the audience will hear.
Click to expand...

All good info but not really applicable to the OP. The guy is planning to record on to mini DV in a room. He's not going to a sound stage with a mixer. So this is a good read and something to keep in mind because it's the quality level your aiming at but it isn't a workflow he will be able to use now.

---
Not dinging the post. Sometimes we get carried away and give advice that is way past what the OP can do. And then they just shut down and miss the important parts.
 
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Thanks guys, this is incredibly helpful. I guess I'll try and go right into the computer and use Soundtrack Pro to record the audio instead of using the camera. Plus, I'm sure it'll be much easier to transition the files from STP into FCP once the recording is finished.

Actually, I will be recording in a studio with plenty of equipment, although I'm not sure an engineer will be available to help. Just to get this straight, I'll be setting up the mic and hooking it up to an audio interface (which I'm sure they'll have there) and using that to control the levels etc. Then I'll be feeding a cable from the audio interface straight into my computer and recording it directly onto the computer using Soundtrack Pro in WAV or AIFF format. Does that sound about right?
 
If your going to be in a studio why would you not use their setup?

I wouldn't use STP unless you really know it. Not many people use it and your going to have a hard time getting help. Also it will always want to record into STAP files so you will have to export after it's done.

IF you know it then go for it but if you don't I would use Reaper.

I would not assume they will have an interface you can use. As an example if they have PT HD then it uses an interface that connects to a proprietary card. You can't use that with a laptop. Even if they have an interface that can connect to your laptop you would need to instal drivers to use it.

Talk to them and maybe they will have a way to make it work but in general you should use the studios set up or bypass it altogether.

For FCP I would go with AIFF, but either should be fine.
 
I would hire someone who knows how to do this. If you don't know what you are doing, this is going to be a nightmare.
 
ARD should be recorded in a propar DAW like Cubase or Pro Tools. Here's a tutorial I made using VocAlign.
 
ARD? I always record ARD in a Vark...;~)

Sorry. Couldn't help my self. Since I do things like that all the time you will have plenty of opportunity to return the favor.
 
Thanks all, it turns out the studio engineer recorded the ADR using Pro Tools so that problem was solved. It definitely wasn't easy, but considering it was my first time I'd say it went relatively smoothly. The sound files were saved in AIFF format so now it's just a matter of importing them into Final Cut and working on them from there. As I get into the sound mix, is Sound Track Pro a decent enough program to use to take care of that (mixing soundtracks together, reducing unwanted noises etc.) or should I invest in another sound program? My budget's pretty low so I'm hoping I can get the job done with FCP and STP.
 
tomflint said:
Thanks all, it turns out the studio engineer recorded the ADR using Pro Tools so that problem was solved. It definitely wasn't easy, but considering it was my first time I'd say it went relatively smoothly. The sound files were saved in AIFF format so now it's just a matter of importing them into Final Cut and working on them from there. As I get into the sound mix, is Sound Track Pro a decent enough program to use to take care of that (mixing soundtracks together, reducing unwanted noises etc.) or should I invest in another sound program? My budget's pretty low so I'm hoping I can get the job done with FCP and STP.
Click to expand...

Great! Good job. Yes -- ADR is definitely not easy. I have not used Soundtrack Pro at all so I cannot speak on that matter, but I'm sure it should be fine. However, Pro Tools is the "industry standard" here in the US, but that doesn't mean you have to use it. These DAWs are nothing but tools to get the job done. Are you going to be doing a lot of post sound stuff? It might be worth it to buy a small Pro Tools rig and some good headphones. For the longest time, I was using an MBOX 2 (USB) with a small MacBook and although I drove it to the ground, it worked flawlessly for all projects.. For reducing unwanted noises, there's nothing like EQ/Expansion/etc., which the DAWs supply out of the box. For more in depth noise reduction, I recommend iZotope RX2.
 
Whatever DAW or NLE you use, you want to disable any 'Quantize to frame' functions, because you want the ability to move an ADR clip down to a sub-frame level, preferably to a millisecond or sample-level increment.
 
Protools is only one of many DAW's suitable for this: Logic Pro, Cubase, Nuendo and Samplitude to name just 4 more. However, achieving professional results cleaning up, editing and mixing audio takes skill and experience as well as having the right tools. You need to have a good ear, and have a good set of monitor speakers in a good room to really get pro sounding results. Using only computer speakers or headphones is unlikely to yield satisfactory results. Many tiimes people put all their effort into the picture and neglect the fact that the audio is at least as important.
 
ryanjf said:
Great! Good job. Yes -- ADR is definitely not easy. I have not used Soundtrack Pro at all so I cannot speak on that matter, but I'm sure it should be fine. However, Pro Tools is the "industry standard" here in the US, but that doesn't mean you have to use it. These DAWs are nothing but tools to get the job done. Are you going to be doing a lot of post sound stuff? It might be worth it to buy a small Pro Tools rig and some good headphones. For the longest time, I was using an MBOX 2 (USB) with a small MacBook and although I drove it to the ground, it worked flawlessly for all projects.. For reducing unwanted noises, there's nothing like EQ/Expansion/etc., which the DAWs supply out of the box. For more in depth noise reduction, I recommend iZotope RX2.
Click to expand...


Using tools like iZotope RX, EQ, compression is quite an art for someone that is new to it. Over the years I have taught a few editors how to do basic work with these tools, but when it comes to serious stuff some of them still get me to do it for them, because they are picture experts but not audio experts and don't have all the tools or the right monitoring environment. I don't believe doing a final mix on headphones is a good idea. They are liablre to give you a slightly false sense of how a mix sits in a room environment. Maybe ok to do some work on, but final decisions should be made on studio monitors if at all possible.
 
Sound track Pro is not my favorite DAW, but if you are very comfortable with FCP then you will probably not have much of a learning curve with STP. Something like Pro Tools is a more flexible and has more industry support as in you can go on forums and get a lot of help but the learning curve if your coming out of FCP can be steep.

I wouldn't worry about quantizing settings since it's usually a special mode in a DAW as opposed to NLE where it's standard.

The one big workflow thing to keep in mind is that all of these things are designed to go from picture edit TO sound edit TO final output. None are designed for a bunch of round tripping.

IF your using FCP and STP you are probably best off using the send to STP project, or OMF to send your audio tracks from FCP to STP.

When your all done you will export a stereo mix of the STP project (full length of the film) and bring that back into FCP as a stereo track. Mute all the other sound tracks and export that movie with your new sound track.

You can probably do this out of STP also but if you have gone the OMF route (actually better than the send to unless you have some very fast computers and lots of storage) you also created a movie and you probably created one at a lower resolution than your final.

A catch with STP is that it always defaults to 5.1 format so you have to use the sub-mix section to tell it to out put stereo or you get a big hunkin file where 4 of the 6 tracks are blank.
 
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