ADOBE PRODUCTION STUDIO no native DVCPRO-HD support

Lets face it...
Adobe thinks the future of video will be web based and
thats where they are going. I think the future of video will
be player based HDTV....
But who am I?
 
HVXguy said:
Lets face it...
Adobe thinks the future of video will be web based and
thats where they are going. I think the future of video will
be player based HDTV....
But who am I?
Click to expand...

I think it will be both... What we're seeing right now with music is exactly what we will see with video in a few years. People will want convenient web and on-demand video distribution options, but they will want their own copies to play on home theatre systems and portable players as well. Adobe is shooting themselves in the foot (IMO). Premiere doesn't natively support any HD formats other than HDV and Encore has no immediate signs of support for HD-DVD or BluRay media. In typical Adobe fashion, anything beyond consumer grade crap will require an expensive, third-party add-on.
 
I called Adobe to find out the answer to our DVCproHD woes but I will be getting a call back from a product specialist in 0-2 days.
 
Yeah, I laughed at that too. I'm sure it's just a matter of Adobe finding the time to port all the 1.5 support to 2.0. The 2.0 list doesn't have any HD cameras on it.

If they are assuming you will use some 3rd party capture card instead of just importing from the cameras firewire they are insane.

Perhaps someone here can shed some light on this? I'm at a somewhat decent point as I'm deciding what HD camera and editing solution I want to use. Since I'm very skilled with After Effects and other Adobe products it would be great to stay in this "suite" of products but the latest info on Premiere 2.0 looks do discouraging.

So gurus of the HVX - Will we be able to edit native HVX HD files with Premiere 2.0 without buying 3rd party software and should we want to use Cineform intermediate 8 or 10 bit will Cineform support the HVX HD format? As of now their website says no.
 
Yes it is hard to make any decisions right now.
I do my best work in After Effects.
I am afraid I will have to just have a whole
suite of PC's and MAC's????
 
HVXguy said:
Lets face it...
Adobe thinks the future of video will be web based and
thats where they are going. I think the future of video will
be player based HDTV....
But who am I?
Click to expand...

Why would you guys think the future of video wouldn't be WEB BASED? Its obvious with all the video players coming out for computers that you download iPTV... Digital Web Video is the future im telling you. Dont think of it as web as in webpages, just getting all video from the net! THE FUTURE.
 
Of course IPtv is the future. It's just that when it's mainstream HVX200 have been retired for a long time...
 
FullRez said:
So gurus of the HVX - Will we be able to edit native HVX HD files with Premiere 2.0 without buying 3rd party software and should we want to use Cineform intermediate 8 or 10 bit will Cineform support the HVX HD format?
Click to expand...
It remains to be seen whether there's proper support or not; hopefully soarprod will get that call back soon. If you're planning on using the HVX, I wouldn't use any editor that doesn't natively work with it. There's FCP, Canopus, and Avid all out there with native support; you need MXF support and P2 import support and variable frame rate support and DVCPRO-HD support, they're all necessary components.
 
I may have to move to a mac and get myself FCP and Shake...

I do like some of the additions though
 
Well I have too much invested in the PC to move to Mac just so I can use the HVX.

It seems that Avid Express HD might be the only viable solution out of the list of editors you listed.

Why would Adobe not support it though? Do they want to compete with FCP and Avid or not?
 
As I understand it......
Matrox AXIO is one of those 3rd party solutions.
It does support DVCPRO HD, however the only
way to get DVCPRO HD into an AXIO system
is to run it through the HD-SDI input using
a DVCPRO deck. Go look at the MATROX video forum
on Creative Cow, I have asked a MATROX rep about
the issue of supporting P2 and the HVX but all I got
was a dumb look on his face???
 
FullRez said:
Well I have too much invested in the PC to move to Mac just so I can use the HVX.
Click to expand...
I felt that way initially too. Then I realized a Mac Mini costs about the same as a single 4gb P2 card, and it became a lot more palatable. Plus DVCPRO-HD just plain works on the Mac platform; having plinked around with trying to figure out some workarounds for the PC, I just can't tolerate the idea of hours and hours of wasted time and transcoding and intermediate codecs and whatever workarounds, vs. just biting the bullet once and going with a working solution. The HVX is just too revolutionary of a tool to hobble myself with not being able to actually use it, by being trapped in workarounds.

With that said, RayLight might be a decent interim solution provided your desktop is up to the task. RayLight would let you work with footage on Premiere Pro or Vegas. It just requires a PC a whole lot faster than what I've got, and seeing as the Mac can deliver half a dozen streams of DVCPRO-HD in realtime, RayLight probably needs a dual-core 3ghz processor (or two) to get true realtime performance from Vegas, for one stream.

It seems that Avid Express HD might be the only viable solution out of the list of editors you listed.
Click to expand...
Avid does seem like a comprehensive solution -- and, heck, it's Avid, right? I picked up Express Pro HD for my laptop (I don't really want to be buying a Mac desktop and a Mac laptop, that's starting to get a bit excessive, and I have a brand-new two-month-old Dell 1920x1200 laptop here, so -- why not?) Plus the Mac laptop situation doesn't make a lot of sense for someone who needs an answer NOW -- the old powerbooks are slow compared to the new MacBooks, and the new MacBooks won't be available for a couple of months and won't run FCP anyway and won't support P2 cards. So do you get an old, slow, end-of-life product that will work but plummet in value? Or do you get a brand-new fast product that won't work today, but should in a few months -- but you need it today? My answer: punt, and get Avid for the PC. Plus I absolutely must have my HD Rack from Serious Magic, and that'll be PC-only, so for the laptop it made sense to go Avid.

So far it seems to be working but I will need to spend a lot more time getting familiar with the program.

For PC users, don't forget Edius Broadcast too -- $999 retail, probably significantly less "street price", and by all reports it has the best P2 integration and best HVX integration of all of them. Adam Wilt gave it a pretty big thumbs-up, and it seems like the most Vegas-like of all the editors. I might end up with all three by the time I'm done; Edius on the PC desktop, Avid on the laptop, and FCP on the Mac desktop.

Why would Adobe not support it though? Do they want to compete with FCP and Avid or not?
Click to expand...
I've been asking that question about them, and about Vegas, for months. I expect that by this time next year they'll probably both be on board, but I really don't intend to limp along with some bogus partial implementation of any software when there are perfectly workable solutions out there right now. Avid works. It needs an update to support 1080/24p and 1080/30p timelines, but other than that it works. Edius works end-to-end, and while it may not have all the features of Avid, it has better integration. And FCP works top-to-bottom, other than the "import P2" unwrap/rewrap process.
 
HVXguy said:
Matrox AXIO is one of those 3rd party solutions.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but it's $7500 for the non-HD-SDI version, and $11,500 for the HD-SDI version. And that's just for the cards. That doesn't include the computer to run it on, nor does it include the Premiere Pro software, does it?

It does support DVCPRO HD, however the only
way to get DVCPRO HD into an AXIO system
is to run it through the HD-SDI input using
a DVCPRO deck.
Click to expand...
Which makes no sense. None at all. The HD-SDI version of the card is $11,000 and the deck is $25,000. And when you're inputting from the deck you're not inputting DVCPRO-HD, you're inputting uncompressed HD, so why recompress it? Sorry, but when you can plug in a card into FCP and get multiple streams of realtime on a $3,000 G5 with FCP Studio, I'm not seeing the compelling argument to go for the $40,000 Axio system just so one can use Premiere Pro.

And the Canopus solution is even cheaper, you can get set up with Edius Broadcast for a grand total of maybe $2,000 for PC + software.

I hope there's some other "3rd Party Hardware" that Adobe is hinting at, because unless someone can point out what I got wrong, I think the Axio system makes no sense for an HVX user.

Now, one thing that would be interesting is if Matrox would introduce a software codec pack for Axio, like they did for the DigiSuite. The DigiSuite was a hardware board system that supported DV50, and Matrox developed a free video-for-windows DV50 codec so that one could work on their DigiSuite projects while away from the hardware-based system. Non-realtime, of course, but you could still do something. So if they continue in the same vein with Axio, maybe they'll introduce a downloadable codec pack that would give us a freely distributable DVCPRO-HD codec. Well, one can hope, right? :)
 
Yeah, but it's $7500 for the non-HD-SDI version, and $11,500 for the HD-SDI version. And that's just for the cards. That doesn't include the computer to run it on, nor does it include the Premiere Pro software, does it?

You are correct!!!
It is very expensive, depending on your editing needs or the needs of your clients - it was almost a perfect solution for me. But you are right about not waiting for half-baked solutions. I am really leaning to having both an Edius and FCP set-up. I do about 25% shooting and 75% editing, I have many producers who work in the MAC world and many corporate types who are only PC. I hope to do more shooting once I get the HVX.
 
Barry, why don't you just run the Avid on the PC instead of your laptop? Can you elaborate on where Avid Express HD falls short for HVX support?

I'm still going to do some more testing of the HVX against Sony. I have to say that on paper DvcPro HD seems much better than HDV. However, if I'm going to have to go to some intermediate coded like Cineform (I'd probably do 10bit) just to keep things as clean as possible before going back out to a HD master or film then so be it. However, in that case I wonder how much of a difference aquiring the intial images via DvcPro HD or HDV.

I will not go out in invest in a ton of HD Hardware. Heck in that case I'll just bight the bullet and go HD uncompressed and capture the uncompressed signal from the Canon or maybe not ;) I really do see P2 recording taking off and non tape (HDD, P2) will be the media of choice. I don't even mind getting the HVX now and waiting for P2 prices to drop making life even easier however if I'm going to have this huge workflow issue now that the images are on my PC then using HDV might be more viable.

Macs are cheap, but not a good one. Not the one I'd want. FCP on the PC - why why why why why not!!!!! :(
 
Or even better Barry, if Matrox updates the .x100 to say .x200 with DVCproHD support for say ~$1500. <-This I would buy faster than a 128gb p2 for $100. I REALLY love my .x100 & PPro 1.5.1 combo for SD work. Pure realtime bliss. Still no call back from Adobe - One wonders who is working in the Premiere division these days :huh: Of course, they had a small announcement today, they might be busy :) The edius solution looks pretty tempting for us PC users - any idea on their return policy?
 
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