Adobe Premiere

[zeke]

For those looking for free, there is
Lightworks. Been around for awhile. Started out in life as a high end NLE system for film. They are porting
to Mac and Linux.

http://www.lwks.com/
There is a small fee for additional codecs, but still less than 100.00 USD.

I can understand AlaskaCamera dude and others who live in very remote areas, but Adobe is not ending their standard purchase/lease model. This whole thread is much ado about nothing.
I'm liking the subscription model, I'll check it out when the next version is released.

 

[deltoidjohn]

Well, legally speaking, you're not supposed to be making money with the Student version. That's why it's the student version.

I'm not sure if this is correct. I believe the student version contains exactly the same user license agreements as the full-price software, it's just that it's available at a cheaper price to qualifying individuals. This is different to, say, Microsoft Office where the Home & Student version can be purchased by anyone (not just students) but has license limitations.

It is in Adobe's best interests for students who buy the software at the discounted price to continue using it professionally after college. Students jump on board because of the cheaper price, and learn Premiere as their first NLE - and when they graduate and move onto paid work, they'll be locked into Adobe for the next couple of upgrades. If the students never use the software for paid work after college, Adobe will never get to sell them any upgrades in the future. If graduates cannot legally use the student version commercially, then they will be back to square one and might migrate to FCP, Vegas or Avid instead.

 

[deltoidjohn]

Another guy said something about having the old version on "all his laptops" or words to that affect . . . By Adobe's EULA you can install the Cloud version on TWO computers (in my case a desktop and my traveling laptop). This practice (2 computers) does not represent a change . . . the practice is long standing.

Peace.

I'm not sure how upgrades under the Cloud license work, but when you upgrade from say CS5.5 to CS6, you get two licenses to the new program on top of your existing licenses. This means you can choose to run versions side by side or across multiple machines. So, if you've been upgrading every version since CS4, you could have as many as eight computers legally running Versions of CS.

 

[dregenthal]

I'm not sure how upgrades under the Cloud license work, but when you upgrade from say CS5.5 to CS6, you get two licenses to the new program on top of your existing licenses. This means you can choose to run versions side by side or across multiple machines. So, if you've been upgrading every version since CS4, you could have as many as eight computers legally running Versions of CS.

Not so. Here is what Adobe says regarding upgrade licenses:

"5. Updates.
If the Software is an Update to a prior version of Adobe software (the “Prior Version”), then Customer’s
use of this Update is conditional upon its retention of the Prior Version. Therefore, if Customer validly
transfers this Update pursuant to Section 4.6, the Customer must transfer the Prior Version along with it.
If Customer wishes to use this Update in addition to the Prior Version, then Customer may only do so on
the same Computer on which it has installed and is using the Prior Version. Any obligations that Adobe
may have to support Prior Versions during the License Term may end upon the availability of this
Update. No other use of the Update is permitted. Additional Updates may be licensed to Customer by
Adobe with additional or different terms."

I'm not saying there aren't ways to "beat the system" but that wouldn't be of interest to me.
Human nature being what it is (and I'm not immune to that), I'd suspect that most of us don't read the EULA when we install software?
Maybe we should because, as we know, the software will not install unless we agree to the EULA right up front during installation.

Regarding the Cloud (subscription), that was my point . . . you get every update, upgrade (which includes the forthcoming CS7), new feature, etc. at no additional cost as long as you continue your subscription.
If new modules are added you get them too.

 

[alaskacameradude]

Look I get the concerns over the license function. Perhaps Adobe should also allow a phone in activation when people are off the grid. Although I am going to take a guess and assume being off the grid may also include no phone access. I just don't understand how somebody can blame Adobe for an off the grid lifestyle. It is your choice to do that. I'm sorry the cloud doesn't work in those situations but how else should Adobe verify people are actually paying for the software? If they got rid of the monthly checks a lot of people would download the software pay for one month and then cancel and keep using it. Perhaps Adobe could sell three month buckets so it would have to check after 90 days. Have any of you ever thought to call Adobe and ask them what you can do if you are off the grid for three months? I would like to get suggestions from people as to how Adobe verify current payment. Maybe they could be convinced to come up with a better license system.

If you don't like it either buy the boxed version while you still can or please move on and stop complaining about Adobe. These handful of situations compared to the thousands that greatly benefit from the cloud are never going to change the mind of Adobe. Is the license a perfect system? No it isn't but for 90% or so of the users out there it is a much better option than what we had before. It has been a win win situation for both parties. Adobe gets a steady cash flow which means they can pump that into development. Users get amazing software in an easier to pay system that makes more sense for a lot of people.

My whole point about cell phones was that if the cost wasn't broken down per month and treated like software people would have to walk into a store and pay $2000.00 up front for a year of use. Nobody could afford that and cell phones would have been the worse selling technology ever invented. By breaking the cost down into months it makes it easier for customers to afford a cell phone and it helps companies actually sell the things and stay in business.

Who said I was blaming Adobe for an off the grid lifestyle? I think I tried to point out that it will probably work for many
people! It doesn't for me. I'm not blaming anyone, I'm just not going to spend money with Adobe if that situation arises,
and I've made them aware of that fact. They can decide how important one (or more) people calling and telling them that
is and take the appropriate action for their business. What I don't get is this attitude that some people (not directed at anyone
in particular, but I've seen it here before) that is roughly equal to "if you don't agree with me, don't post". Then it is disguised
under "Well if you don't like it, just don't buy it, but don't come here and complain about it". Look if someone is raising
legitimate concerns, but is still being fair and not too crazy, why not allow them to raise the concerns? The result just
might be a better product.

As for suggestions, here's a really innovative one. Let's say they just have my credit card on file on autopay. Money comes
out on the 1st (or 15th or whatever) of every month. Why in the world would they need me to have my computer 'phoning
home' every month? Certainly not to 'verify that they are being paid' because that is being done already.

One last thing to think about since some 'pro' Creative Cloud types have brought up things such as cell phone and
cable bills. Past business models, were buy the software and own it. So there was a LARGE incentive for Adobe to
improve upon the feature set of existing software. Because otherwise, why would people pay the upgrade price?
They'd just keep using the old software unless there was a compelling reason for them upgrade, which meant that
Adobe would need to continue improving and making it better. But, under a subscription model, the same sort of
incentive does not exist, as you get 'cut off' once you stop paying. For an example of this (at least in my part of
the world) you need look no further than the aforementioned cell phone and cable service providers. Things tend
to be fairly stagnant as far as them offering new features. They also will force you off older (and lower cost) plans
to newer (and higher cost) plans, when they DO offer anything new, (I mean hey, they need to make their money
back now right!). What this could mean, is that once there are enough people hooked into the 'subscription'
plan.....innovation (namely those updates that you get for free with Creative Cloud) start to become much
less frequent. Because, now, they don't need you to upgrade to the newest version, so why should they spend
money on improving it if they already have enough subscribers? Now this kind of thing wouldn't even
happen right away, because they would want to continue attracting newcomers, but after a certain period
of time, (and enough subscribers) I think it would kind of naturally tend to occur. But hey, that's just my
opinion, based on what I see with other things (such as cable and cell service) based on this type of model.
So I guess, if you are generally satisfied with that type of model, and it works for you, great!
Vote with your dollars and go crazy. I have nothing bad to say about that choice, I'm glad it works for people.
Personally, I'm not a fan and will do anything to avoid going that route, including switching companies.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Adobe has been improving upon the feature set of existing software to expand their market share and fill the whole the Apple debacle has left the professional creative community.

They either innovate or get left behind. The cloud has nothing to do with that.

 

[Mike Harvey]

As for suggestions, here's a really innovative one. Let's say they just have my credit card on file on autopay. Money comes
out on the 1st (or 15th or whatever) of every month. Why in the world would they need me to have my computer 'phoning
home' every month? Certainly not to 'verify that they are being paid' because that is being done already.

I think it's to keep an acount of all copies associated with a particular license. Your computer doesn't know if you've installed on a third computer, so perhaps it's to help keep people honest.

 

[Wesley Byram]

...Look if someone is raising legitimate concerns, but is still being fair and not too crazy, why not allow them to raise the concerns? The result just might be a better product.

Seconded.

 

[GrahamH]

Adobe has been improving upon the feature set of existing software to expand their market share and fill the whole the Apple debacle has left the professional creative community.

They either innovate or get left behind. The cloud has nothing to do with that.

Right, but presently that's to encourage folk to hop onto the cloud. Alaskadude is speculating about future prospects once most everyone IS on. However, a potential counter argument to him would be it's easier to give up a $30/month habit to switch NLE than the sunk cost of a fully purchased product. However a potential counter counter argument is that, just like Phone companies, software companies could use fine print to make it costly to switch early. Time will tell.

 

[Thomas Smet]

Who said I was blaming Adobe for an off the grid lifestyle? I think I tried to point out that it will probably work for many
people! It doesn't for me. I'm not blaming anyone, I'm just not going to spend money with Adobe if that situation arises,
and I've made them aware of that fact. They can decide how important one (or more) people calling and telling them that
is and take the appropriate action for their business. What I don't get is this attitude that some people (not directed at anyone
in particular, but I've seen it here before) that is roughly equal to "if you don't agree with me, don't post". Then it is disguised
under "Well if you don't like it, just don't buy it, but don't come here and complain about it". Look if someone is raising
legitimate concerns, but is still being fair and not too crazy, why not allow them to raise the concerns? The result just
might be a better product.

As for suggestions, here's a really innovative one. Let's say they just have my credit card on file on autopay. Money comes
out on the 1st (or 15th or whatever) of every month. Why in the world would they need me to have my computer 'phoning
home' every month? Certainly not to 'verify that they are being paid' because that is being done already.

One last thing to think about since some 'pro' Creative Cloud types have brought up things such as cell phone and
cable bills. Past business models, were buy the software and own it. So there was a LARGE incentive for Adobe to
improve upon the feature set of existing software. Because otherwise, why would people pay the upgrade price?
They'd just keep using the old software unless there was a compelling reason for them upgrade, which meant that
Adobe would need to continue improving and making it better. But, under a subscription model, the same sort of
incentive does not exist, as you get 'cut off' once you stop paying. For an example of this (at least in my part of
the world) you need look no further than the aforementioned cell phone and cable service providers. Things tend
to be fairly stagnant as far as them offering new features. They also will force you off older (and lower cost) plans
to newer (and higher cost) plans, when they DO offer anything new, (I mean hey, they need to make their money
back now right!). What this could mean, is that once there are enough people hooked into the 'subscription'
plan.....innovation (namely those updates that you get for free with Creative Cloud) start to become much
less frequent. Because, now, they don't need you to upgrade to the newest version, so why should they spend
money on improving it if they already have enough subscribers? Now this kind of thing wouldn't even
happen right away, because they would want to continue attracting newcomers, but after a certain period
of time, (and enough subscribers) I think it would kind of naturally tend to occur. But hey, that's just my
opinion, based on what I see with other things (such as cable and cell service) based on this type of model.
So I guess, if you are generally satisfied with that type of model, and it works for you, great!
Vote with your dollars and go crazy. I have nothing bad to say about that choice, I'm glad it works for people.
Personally, I'm not a fan and will do anything to avoid going that route, including switching companies.

That's exactly what they already do. Your credit card is on file and it automatically gets charged once per month. That isn't the problem. The problem is what if somebody cancels their subscription after 12 months or their credit card maxes out or gets canceled. Adobe needs a way to make sure the software on the computer no longer functions if somebody decides they no longer want to pay. So far the only way they can do this "without" requiring a constant connection is to do it once per month. They felt this was the best compromise. Lets say somebody signs up for the cloud and decides to cancel after 12 months. Should they get to keep the software if they only paid $600.00 for $2400.00 software? That is unfair to people like me who do pay full price.

My best solution to help some of you would be for Adobe to allow the system to hold a license that could be purchased for three or four months at a time. This way Adobe can make sure you paid for those three months and the license software would not check again for 90 days.

I also do not mean to be insensitive to those with special situations. But this is no longer just a casual conversation about the subject. This has turned into a debate seven pages long of back and forth bickering. The fact is nobody from Adobe is going to see this conversation on this forum or any other forum so it really does little good except rock the boat a bit. It is ok to bring up how somebody feels about a product but to go on about it for seven pages start to get a little obsessive. None of us mean you should just move on but honestly if it makes you this upset we don't know what else to tell you. I just fail to see the point of rehashing the same points over and over again that in the end will get nobody anywhere.

My suggestion is to direct your frustration which is a valid frustration at the proper people who can hopefully make a change for you. I or anybody else on this forum is powerless to change any policy at Adobe. In fact most Adobe employees are powerless to change the minds of the legal and executive teams who make these decisions. I would honestly like to see a solution from Adobe for your situation and hope somebody there can help you.

 

[alaskacameradude]

Adobe has been improving upon the feature set of existing software to expand their market share and fill the whole the Apple debacle has left the professional creative community.

They either innovate or get left behind. The cloud has nothing to do with that.

Well, the post production software industry as a whole has not moved to 'the cloud' yet. Several people have
said that this is the 'way of the future'. So granted, I have no crystal ball, but my best guess on what type of
industry a 'cloud based' software industry would be like, is to look at industries that have that type of model
currently. Is AT&T innovative because of the competition from Verizon? Does Time Warner Cable constantly
improve upon it's existing feature set so as not to be 'left behind' by Comcast? Maybe it's just my little corner
of the world, and elsewhere these companies DO constantly improve because of the competition! These are
just questions I am asking because to me, I see longtime 'cloud/subscription based' model industries CONSISTANTLY
have the worst customer service and are about as stagnant as can be. That's just me though, you may see
things quite differently!

 

[alaskacameradude]

That's exactly what they already do. Your credit card is on file and it automatically gets charged once per month. That isn't the problem. The problem is what if somebody cancels their subscription after 12 months or their credit card maxes out or gets canceled. Adobe needs a way to make sure the software on the computer no longer functions if somebody decides they no longer want to pay. So far the only way they can do this "without" requiring a constant connection is to do it once per month. They felt this was the best compromise. Lets say somebody signs up for the cloud and decides to cancel after 12 months. Should they get to keep the software if they only paid $600.00 for $2400.00 software? That is unfair to people like me who do pay full price.

My best solution to help some of you would be for Adobe to allow the system to hold a license that could be purchased for three or four months at a time. This way Adobe can make sure you paid for those three months and the license software would not check again for 90 days.

I also do not mean to be insensitive to those with special situations. But this is no longer just a casual conversation about the subject. This has turned into a debate seven pages long of back and forth bickering. The fact is nobody from Adobe is going to see this conversation on this forum or any other forum so it really does little good except rock the boat a bit. It is ok to bring up how somebody feels about a product but to go on about it for seven pages start to get a little obsessive. None of us mean you should just move on but honestly if it makes you this upset we don't know what else to tell you. I just fail to see the point of rehashing the same points over and over again that in the end will get nobody anywhere.

My suggestion is to direct your frustration which is a valid frustration at the proper people who can hopefully make a change for you. I or anybody else on this forum is powerless to change any policy at Adobe. In fact most Adobe employees are powerless to change the minds of the legal and executive teams who make these decisions. I would honestly like to see a solution from Adobe for your situation and hope somebody there can help you.

Ok, that is a valid point about needing to make sure the software doesn't continue to be used. No solution that I can
see then. Which is fine. As I've said, Adobe should do what helps their bottom line the most, and not be worried
about special situations such as mine. I have absolutely no problems spending my money elsewhere when it
comes to that.

I think the reason that this subject seems to inflame more than casual conversation is that it kind of gets
to the roots of ownership. Many in the music, movie, and software industry have a different idea of what
is legal ownership than the users do. For example if you buy a new copy of Disney's Cars DVD, do you
have the right to make a copy so that when your kids invariably scratch it, you can still watch it? Movie
industry says no. These kinds of things tend to invoke strong opinions. I have tried very hard to be
fair and balanced and NOT do that here, trying to make the point that I don't expect Adobe to do anything
other than what is best for them. That's what they should do. I'm merely pointing out concerns that
some may have about the subscription based model (as stated in my above post)
but trying to do it in a non inflammatory way.

Look, I'm totally sure there are more 'winners' than 'losers' with the Creative Cloud as it is now.
Doesn't work for me, but that's fine, there are other choices. My real concerns would be, if
the entire post productions software industry went to this subscription based approach. Once
the other options are cut off. If that ever happens, I say, you need only look at other subscription
based industries for what the future would look like.

 

[bosindy]

Look, I'm totally sure there are more 'winners' than 'losers' with the Creative Cloud as it is now.
Doesn't work for me, but that's fine, there are other choices.

including buying Adobe CS7, because the cloud is an additional option, not a requirement to using the software. Or we can continue to beat the canard to death that they will force everyone into subscriptions and say we are being reasonable in objecting to something that is not happening.

 

[ripupthehwy]

It will entail being on a fishing boat for longer than 30 days. Again, even if it is 'just for 5 seconds' there
will be no access to a pretty key component to keep a Creative Cloud subscription up and running.

Hmm. I'm wondering in your case would adobe allow you to pay 2 or 3 months in advance while you're out of internet service. Otherwise for you I would think your only option is to purchase the full softwares you have to use during that time.

 

[The Irish TRex]

Poor guy who started this just wanted to know about some of the new features coming out next month. Now look what happened. An all out assault on having to go online once a month. To be that disconnected from the web sounds refreshing actually but for now I'll just enjoy making a living using CS6 and when CS7 comes next month I'll gladly welcome the HUGE list of improvements and all the added features. They look AWESOME!

I bought into the Cloud thing back in August for just $19.99/mo. (my wife's a teacher...BAM!) and after seeing the improvements in the next Premiere Pro, I'm THANKFUL that I have Creative Cloud. Had I bought a hard copy back in August for say $600 then I'd have to fork over probably another $600 next month if hard copy was the only option. I would if I had to because I personally believe the improvements are worth it (see the 2nd post in this thread for links to actual information on this update). But now I've paid basically only $180 so far (9 months) and I'm getting the next version included!! I'll take that any day.

BTW, no issues so far with connecting wirelessly. Sure the hard copy option is leaving and in some ways that's a bummer but I'm just glad I'm saving $1000 next month when I get the free update to CS7.

So...how bout those features!

 

[JohnnyD]

There are some great new things coming to CS7. You want to save a lot of money to make up for the cloud scrip? Just built a very fast PC computer for $1,300, like I did. Forget the Mac. It's a lot easier to upgrade a PC, than a Mac. They both use the same Intel motherboard, but the Mac has to have their special ROMS,etc.
If you really want to save, buy the GrassValley Edius NLE. No Internet required after the first time.

 

[ELN614]

I think the problem is with subscription. once everyone is on it... the price will creep up and keep creeping up until they start to lose membership and then they will have found the sweet spot to milk the most from everyone.
A lot say how cheap it is --- wait until they start jacking the price and once you stop paying --- you got NOTHING to show for all that money other than memories.
I 'own' CS5.5. no additional money required.
I just hope I won't need to upgrade to accept new file types. that will be the day I dread.

 

[The Irish TRex]

I think the problem is with subscription. once everyone is on it... the price will creep up and keep creeping up until they start to lose membership and then they will have found the sweet spot to milk the most from everyone.
A lot say how cheap it is --- wait until they start jacking the price and once you stop paying --- you got NOTHING to show for all that money other than memories.
I 'own' CS5.5. no additional money required.
I just hope I won't need to upgrade to accept new file types. that will be the day I dread.

Valid point.

 

[adkimery]

So the answer is yes you need ongoing Internet access to use your creative cloud membership.
You must connect every 30 days. For me that makes it a definite no go. I'm under no delusions that
I'm in the majority here. For most urban living people it will be fine. I'm going to choose not to
support this type of approach with my dollars.

It's my understanding that if you call Adobe and tell them you'll be w/o internet access for more than 30 days they will do their best to accommodate people on a case by case basis. So you might be able to get an exemption for your long trips into the back country. Still might be more hassle than it's worth for your situation though.

My 2 cents:

It's not a good move for me.
I still have and use CS3 and CS4 on my“old” laptops.
With their move to the cloud I would lose that option.
I can update Master Suite for a little less than $600 and I own it.
$50 times 12 is 600 and once I stop paying I have nothing.

Adobe doesn't allow upgrades from software that old anymore. For example, to get the upgrade price for CS6 you'd need to own qualifying apps from CS 5 or CS 5.5. To move from CS 4 or CS 3 to CS 6 would require you to pay full retail price. People buying software then only paying an upgrade price every 3 or 4 years is something Adobe is trying to get away from. The subscription model wouldn't be viable if people could skip multiple versions (or buy an old, used version off ebay) and only pay the upgrade price to get the latest version.


-Andrew

 

[ELN614]

... To move from CS 4 or CS 3 to CS 6 would require you to pay full retail price. ..-Andrew

Seems the screws are already tightening. To skip a version never costed full price. Plus version to version changes were more time based vs feature based. They did it to make money. I found few features were added unless it was just to keep up with competition or file types. Adobe never had leap & bounds version changes worth paying full price. I am still wating for a superior transcoding from 1080i or 1080p to MPEG2-DVD. If Adobe can make my DVD look as good as my HD footage (as I see from Hollywood DVDs on the shelf) I'll upgrade.