About to pull trigger on a Mole Richardson kit. Am I on the right track?

Searcher

Searcher

Well-known member
My budget is around 4k for 3 or 4 lights. I believe in buying quality and I love fresnels.

I want to CTB the lights most of the time. The light loss shouldn't matter too much because I'm working with the Sony FS100 which is so sensitive.

I'll be shooting narrative.

I was looking at this kit

Just wanted any feedback on whether this was a good set or if there is any other suggestion?

BTW the total wattage is 1950W and I was just wondering how suitable that was for Australian household use?

I would go with secondhand but there doesn't seem to be many around in Australia.

Thanks
 
Searcher said:
M
I want to CTB the lights most of the time. The light loss shouldn't matter too much because I'm working with the Sony FS100 which is so sensitive.
Click to expand...


Sigh.


You may want to rethink that.

Putting a full CTB on some tungsten fresnels will drop your light level by a significant amount.
 
nice to talk to someone who is prepared to spend some money on lighting......
that would be a great starter kit. and should last you for many years. i to am a fan of fresnels......
you can add to it as your budget allows. some dedos. kenos. etc

to compute your amps divide the lights wattage by the voltage supply. 650w lamp divided by 240v line voltage = 2.7 amps per 650w light

assume 10amp per circuit for household power [some new buildings are 16 or 20 amp....... check the fuse box] you should have no problems running
off house power.

check out www.ccslightsound.com.au for second hand lights.........click on second hand updates
they are in port melb

cheers
 
David W. Jones said:
2 full stops!
I agree with Matt if you are needing daylight balanced lights.
Click to expand...

Okay thanks mcgee and David. I knew at least one part of my post would scream newb!

At least I'm not talking about only using available light? I know I lose a couple of stops but the FS100 is super good at high ISOs. I figure the camera is about two stops more sensitive than many cameras... Hmm.

Is my logic that flawed?
 
ian dart said:
nice to talk to someone who is prepared to spend some money on lighting......
that would be a great starter kit. and should last you for many years. i to am a fan of fresnels......
you can add to it as your budget allows. some dedos. kenos. etc

to compute your amps divide the lights wattage by the voltage supply. 650w lamp divided by 240v line voltage = 2.7 amps per 650w light

assume 10amp per circuit for household power [some new buildings are 16 or 20 amp....... check the fuse box] you should have no problems running
off house power.

check out www.ccslightsound.com.au for second hand lights.........click on second hand updates
they are in port melb

cheers
Click to expand...

Thanks ian!

I know that most relative newbs come on here and ask about $500 lighting kits but I have the cash and believe in buying right the first time.

My granddad used to say to me "I'm too poor to afford cheap stuff."
 
If you really need daylight look around for quality used HMI's. You can pick up a couple of 200 or even a 575 if you are patient.
 
Mole makes good lights, but in Hollywood they're mostly seen in studios You might consider ARRI instead.

The open face light you linked to is not my favorite either. If it's only for the soft box look at Chimera's lights, or similar.

But as mentioned, consider daylight sources, especially if you'll ever mix them with natural daylight. The output will so reduced by CTB that it may be hard to balance your exposure.

And lastly, tungstens get hot, & sound department hates Air Conditioning, so I rarely use them when the weather warms. Plus they draw a lot of juice.
 
Again, there's nothing wrong with owning a nice Mole kit, and I think a good tungsten set is an essential part of a well balanced light kit.
But if I were going to be shooting daylight most of the time, I would likely invest in a few daylight balanced lights to start.

I have a couple of 575w Fresnel HMIs in my kit, a number of 55w Biax lights in 2x55, 4x55, 6x55, as well as daylight balanced LED lights.

Just something to think about.
 
The problems with kits is... they're kits. It might make some sense to buy individual lights instead.

Unlike the pros here, I think you're on the right track -- tungsten with CTB gel is about the only way to get an affordable daylight fresnel light for those of us who are more budget constrained. The used HMIs I've been able to find were both expensive and with magnetic ballasts -- possibly noisy, and possibly flicker-y, and definitely heavy. So until the grant gets approved, the only way I can see getting a daylight fresnel is to CTB gel a tungsten instrument.

Since CTB gel cuts out a significant amount of light, you might want to consider getting a 1k instrument. The 1k would give you 250w under CTB, and since you can focus and throw it, that might be a significant amount of light for your uses. And you can still use it with standard household current. And when you don't need that much power you can usually lamp it down to 500w, so less heat and less power draw.

You could add to this either another 1k (so they can share scrims and other parts) or a 650w. An open face into a softbox if you need that sort of thing, or another fresnel and a large diffusion holder like a Scrim Jim (which can double as a reflector when needed) (with clamps, grip arms, and c-stand of course). The advantage of this is you gain the flexibility of another fresnel, the disadvantage is that you get some spill from the back side of the diffusion that you wouldn't from the softbox.

I'm just sayin' that I'm heading in this direction too, and I think we're both doing the right thing.
 
i got a mole richardson kit - i'd get one with a Mickey-Mole, that you can gel along with those great 650 tweenies. Im rapidly swapping out to LED's as I learn to get the look I like with it when I do shoot/light - but the MR kit is a great investment. If you have 4k - I'd be wary of blowing the whole 4k on just that - squeeze in some other stuff!
 
Seriously, you can make that money go a long way. I would get something else. Mole are good but only really a good deal when you get them used IMO. Lets say you bough from cool lights (about the quality of arri but much cheaper)

You could get:
2x 650 fresnels
1x 1000 fresnel
1x 150 fresnel as a kicker/rim light
all for around $1,000

Then you could get
2x 4 bank portable daylight fluourescents
1x 6 bank
all for $1500

Plus you could get
2x 150 watt HMI/CDM daylight fresnels (equivalent to 650watt tungsen)
1x 70 watt HMI fresnel as a hairlight
for $1400

That's Ten high quality lights and you would have the most awesome/complete setup ever. Now I was using coo lights as an example but you could also go with Arri or other manufacturers. You could also buy used moles on ebay and buy used HMIs.

I personally got 3 650 watt desisti fresnels used for 150 bucks each and they are in good shape.
 
Thanks everyone. Definitely loads of food for thought.

I'm a little loath to go secondhand because of my lack of knowledge. I could easily buy a broken HMI without knowing it until it kills me. Yes I'm afraid of HMIs.

I know it's a bit old school to go the tungsten route but is just the beginning of what I hope will be a substantial kit one day.

@Bruce Watson Thanks for making me feel like I'm not a crazy. I think you're definitely right about looking at a 1k and I found your other suggestions very helpful. Thanks.
 
You might want to consider LED's for 5600 temp. I have a couple of the cool lights brand and I really like them. They put out a lot of light and are pretty soft. Not very expensive and also have battery power options. Pretty darn sweet.

Go with Arri they are the best.
 
Jackson Miller said:
That's Ten high quality lights and you would have the most awesome/complete setup ever. Now I was using coo lights as an example but you could also go with Arri or other manufacturers. You could also buy used moles on ebay and buy used HMIs.

I personally got 3 650 watt desisti fresnels used for 150 bucks each and they are in good shape.
Click to expand...

I guess the 4k budget was just for the moles. I expect to spend another few k over the next year or two adding cool lights etc.

In Australia there does not seem to be anywhere near the same secondhand market in lights as there is in the states or I would definitely go that route. I don't start shooting my next film till march so I'll keep looking for secondhand till then. I suppose I could rent until a good used fresnel comes up on eBay.

I find it interesting that people talk about buying a Scarlet like it's nothing but 4k on lights seems a lot to some? I'd rather have a FS100 and a killer light set up than a Scarlet or F3. I guess I know I want to own lights whereas many rent.

Hmmm.
 
Bruce Watson said:
The problems with kits is... they're kits. It might make some sense to buy individual lights instead.

Unlike the pros here, I think you're on the right track -- tungsten with CTB gel is about the only way to get an affordable daylight fresnel light for those of us who are more budget constrained. .
Click to expand...

Sorry but you are wrong, that is not the only way. CTB takes out 75% of your light! You would need a 2k fresnel just to have the equivalent of a 500 watt fresnel, and that's not even the standard 650. More importantly, you wouldn't be able to add any other lights because you would blow the breaker! You shouldn't really go above 2k and you would need fill and a backlight etc.

Now here's why you are wrong. A new 2k fresnel costs around 500-700 bucks. A cool lights 150watt HMI costs under 500 bucks and is well reviewed. I haven't used it but it is known to have a good ballast. So you don't even have to worry about buying a used HMI. Also, you can buy used hmi's from pyramid films and you KNOW they will work.

Anyways, I don't have any but I certainly plan on buying a 70 and 150 soon.



Another option is to just gel the windows CTO... problem solved. It'll take a while but you won't have to gel your lights and lose output.


EDIT: I think it's important to have some tungsten fresnels by the way. Just not at $1000 each.
 
Also, you couldnt possibly have a simpler unit than a Mole Richardson light. You need to know less than nothing to repair those things (replace bulb, rewire plug, fix housing). See if you can wrangle a kit used. For 4k you should end up with a use Mole Richardson kit and brand new LED's and then you can light anything you want in the wooooooooorld.

I wouldn't get a HMI used unless you know the source and they stand by selling it. Too much can go wrong on a second hand HMI.
 
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