ABC may use HD100

[athouguia]

It'll be worse than the XL2 because you can't put the HVX on your shoulder. It won't hold comfortably... 3.7Kg on an handycam... you'll need a strong arm!!

 

[lacuna]

Glad to help! I think that the opportunity to network and create allies far outweighs the risk of creating competitors...

Thanks Gibby, more good stuff! Keep us up to date

 

[Ralph Oshiro]

Here's a couple of real-world pics of the two cameras. Of course, there's nothing common in the two frames to make a size comparison, but at least you can see the size of the BNC jacks on the JVC, and the P2 card's size next to the Panasonic.

JVC HD100 Protoype at NAB 2005

Panasonic HVX200 Mock-up at NAB 2005

 

[Jarred Land]

i gotta give it to JVC for the cute little cheek pad. Thats a pretty good idea.

 

[BrianAWells]

i gotta give it to Panasonic for putting a viewfinder on the camera. Thats a REALLY good idea! :cheesy:

 

[Ralph Oshiro]

A picture of the JVC HD100 with all the cool accessories mounted on it!

 

[Ralph Oshiro]

i gotta give it to Panasonic for putting a viewfinder on the camera. Thats a REALLY good idea!

HA! Duh . . . I JUST got it, Brian! I took that picture of the HD100 that was mounted on a remote head 'cause it was one of the few times I could get a clear shot of the camera from all angles (that JVC booth was CROWDED!). Yeah, so since it was on a remote pan/tilt head, no need for the VF!

 

[BrianAWells]

Hey, did you happen to see the one with the Mini35? I took my own picture of it (heck, why not?!) but never actually found out if it was optically functional or not... Not like I'm in the market for buying a Mini35 OR a JVC camera.. I just kind wondered if you had heard about it.

Also, I found out some more about that Sony "450 whatever" camera you like. It actually will do a 24PA, at least according to the newest printed literature they have out right now (or so I'm told) and also, I have a copy of the 140 page manual as a PDF.. if you want it, send me a PM with your email and I'll whisk your way.... SFAIK, they aren't available online just yet....

 

[Ralph Oshiro]

Also, I found out some more about that Sony "450 whatever" camera you like. It actually will do a 24PA, at least according to the newest printed literature they have out right now (or so I'm told) and also, I have a copy of the 140 page manual as a PDF.

Holy crap, Brian! That's AWESOME that the DSR450 does 24PA!!! Whew! Thanks! No, I didn't see the Mini35. I never really got the point of that thing--I mean for the price (and loss of light) you pay for it, you could like totally buy a way better camera to begin with! Anyway, I sent you a PM--that would be great!

P.S. By the way, what does "SFAIK" mean?

 

[Mike Parker]

Wusses!

I've been schlepping around a 25-pound Ikegami Betacam for years, often all-day-long, and I'm 58 years old. And you guys are bitching about a seven pound camera??? I also own a DVX100a and a Sony DSR-200a and the truth is, I prefer the 10-pound shoulder-mount 200a to the DVX for shooting comfort.

It's a lot less wear and tear on ones' body when you're shooting a 10-15 minute interview off the shoulder than hand-holding a DVX. It's also MUCH more stable. When I have to shoot an interview with the DVX I generally use sticks or a monopod.

To put all of this into perspective, when I got into this news business back in 1970, the standard rig was an Auricon Pro 600 camera, Auricon MA-11 amplifier, Frezzi camera battery and inverter (the cameras ran on 110-volt AC), 30-volt Sun Gun and battery, shoulder brace (padded with foam rubber) etc. Total weight: close to SEVENTY POUNDS! When the 15-pound CP-16 camera came out in 1973, we thought we'd died and gone to heaven.

Puleeeeze...

Mike Parker
www.mp-tv.com

 

[Ralph Oshiro]

I've been schlepping around a 25-pound Ikegami Betacam for years, often all-day-long, and I'm 58 years old. And you guys are bitching about a seven pound camera???

Hey there, old-timer! I started a few years after you with an Ikegami HL-79 (only had to shoot with an RCA TK-76 once) and a stupid BVU-110 (and once in a while, that 50 lb. Ampex VPR-20 1" deck)! And yeah, that darn 30V belt was no picnic either! I remember when the first tube-based Betacams came out in the early 1980's (BVW-1/BVW-3)--we thought we died and went to heaven too (remember registration charts?)! We're soon to get new XDCAMs at NBC to replace our aging BVW400s. But once we get all the Lectrosonics gear, Hytron 120s, and the PagLight on the darn thing, that damned camera is STILL gonna weigh 25 lbs.!!!!!

 

[Mike Parker]

Yep, just when the cameras start to lighten up, the "next big thing" comes along and we're right back where we started from a weight standpoint.

I used HL-33's and -35's at KYW in Philly, then we had a few RCA TK-76's from across the river in Camden. We ended up with Sony BVW-300's and BVU-50's and lost our sound guys in the process.

When I started my own business, my first camera was a JVC KY-310 (not a bad camera) and a JVC 3/4" deck. Went on to a KY-320B which had Plumbicons instead of the Saticons on the KY-310. Upgraded that to a KY-950 which has LOC Diode Gun Plumbicons just like the HL-79 only the JVC had MUCH better pre-amps and blew the HL-79 into the weeds in low light. I shot part of the pilot for Rescue 911 with my KY-950 and the other crew was using an HL-79. Technically, my night footage looked MUCH better. Everyone was amazed. I ended up spending two seasons at Rescue and moved to La La Land from Lenexa, Kansas.

I spent almost 12 years out there from 1990 - 2001. From 1990 to 1996, LA was the news center of the universe: Rodney King, the trials, the riots, earthquakes, fires and floods, and TWO OJ trials. We all got rich. I moved back to South Florida after I came to realise that my primal fear is earthquakes. At least with hurricanes you have advance notice and can stock up on emergency supplies: ice, beer, Doritos.

Since you work for NBC, do you ever run into a blind, drunk, reprobate shooter named Jim White? I taught him everything he knows. (He probably says the same about me...)

Mike

ps. I wonder how many DVX members know what "HL" stands for.

 

[Tom Wills]

Whoah, my dad worked at KYW through the Evening Magazine era and is still there today. You might remember him. Does John Wills ring a bell?

 

[BrianAWells]

I prefer the 10-pound shoulder-mount 200a to the DVX for shooting comfort.

Even though that camera is a little more than a scaled version of the VX1000 with bigger tapes, I'll agree, that is one of the more comfortable cameras I've used. Real viewfinder. Lightweight batteries. Super long record time. No idea why Sony abandoned this form factor. I think it could be a real hit.

Personally, I dig shoulder mount cams, within reason. There is a limit to how much I want to subject myself to when doing handheld operating. The classic Mighty Wondercam is a great addition to a DVX package. I saw a guy using one on a reality series a while back and recently have thought about ordering. It's super lightweight and not bulky like other shoulder mounts. Plus, it's cheap. Any thoughts?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=ProductDetail&A=showItemLargeImage&Q=&sku=147274 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=MICQ&is=REG&Q=&O=productlist&sku=147274

...Add a zoom controller and you're all set !

 

[ARRIguy]

Any thoughts?

I've used braces like this before with this sort of camera. The fatigue factor can be worse with this brace than without - depending on whether or not it allows you to brace your elbow on your body). Though it can give you more stability the camera's center of gravity is still in the same place as it would be without the brace so it's still way front heavy - weight your body has to support.

To try to balance this rig (i.e. to reduce the fatigue factor) you'd have to add an extention arm from the shoulder pad to extend past your your back and add a pile of weight out there - very cumbersome. You might be able to get it to work but a well designed shoulder mount camera does it all, only in a far more compact and useable form.

My edit is to add another point on this type of brace:
Unless you're left hand is wraped around the top of the camera, it tends to be to be top heavy and unstable when your doing quick pans esp. if like the HVX 200 the camera is heavier. As soon as you remove your hand to do a maunal focus or zoom you get framing giggles. For occasions where you are following some fast moving subject and can keep your left hand wrapped around the top of camera it's an excellent rig - something like swinging a shotgun on skeet shooting range.

 

[Barry_Green]

The CP16 was indeed a marvel of lightweight engineering. I've had my share of Auricon 600's (including the "pro lightweight" version!) and a couple of Auricon 1200's. Man, a 1200 with the 1200' mag -- that's a HEAVY camera.

Shoulder mount is definitely more stable than handheld, and is less fatiguing than handheld, especially on a long shoot. But I gotta say, if you want to reduce the fatigue factor, the little Steady Stick is the way to go. Way, way, way less fatiguing than shoulder-mount, because it takes *all* the weight off your back and puts it right on your hips (where you don't even feel it, really).

 

[BrianAWells]

Man, a 1200 with the 1200' mag -- that's a HEAVY camera.

I know a guy who receives a large portion of his work filming speeches on 16mm. He's got an old 1200' Mitchell mag for his 16M, but that thing is impossible to load! Pretty cool looking and quite rare...

We recently found TWO 1200' mags for his SR-3's (custom fab, only six ever built) ... on eBay of all places! Dude, these things are bigger than the airline carry-on restriction! They are HUGE!

 

[ARRIguy]

..... But I gotta say, if you want to reduce the fatigue factor, the little Steady Stick is the way to go. Way, way, way less fatiguing than shoulder-mount, because it takes *all* the weight off your back and puts it right on your hips (where you don't even feel it, really).

Here's a user's review to talk about this support:http://www.dvfreelancer.com/articles/steadystick.html

Though not this brand, I've used similar supports successfully in some situations, but one trouble i've had with them is flexibility of moving the camera in relation to my body. There is an impediment factor when doing a pan (with feet planted) or a tilt (<in this case with having to adjust viewfinder orientation). (I'd like to hear if this has been overcome [or even partly overcome] with the steady stick.) The reviewer also recommends extra paraphenalia to make the steady stick work well - more stuff: more prep and take down time.

At the risk of overstating my point: There is nothing like the freedom of movement of the human spine/neck combination and operating a camera that almost becomes a part of your head and eye. You can still add this extra stuff to such a camera for the occasions you may need it. For a camera in the HD 100 weight range (very low for shoulder mount) I would expect these times would be very few.

For me this form/weight issue will be a major factor in favouring the JVC HD100 over the HVX 200 for handheld use. Now if it only came supplied with a lens with as wide a focal length as the HVX 200!

 

[Ralph Oshiro]

For me this form/weight issue will be a major factor in favouring the JVC HD100 over the HVX 200 for handheld use.

I gotta admit, after fondling the JVC HD100 at NAB, I really liked the form factor and ergonomics. Plus, the damn thing just looks super-cool! Some of you will remember the "old-school" shoulder braces--the kind that had a "V" support that leaned against the front of your chest--those things ROCKED! I think someone in the back of DV magazine or something makes a modern version of that style brace. The Anton Bauer brace, to me, looks like the best of the bunch (assuming you upgrade your power to bricks).

But I just had to chime in about the HD100--it sure looks and feels cool in your hands. The handheld ergonomics of the DVX100 (or any Handycam-type camera) leaves a lot to be desired when operated without a brace, and the HVX200 will leave even more with its added weight and bulk. But 99% of my photography for my personal stuff is sticks, dolly, or Steadicam, so the handheld ergonomics isn't a HUGE factor for me. I do own one of the little braces that I like a lot (a Hollywood Lite?)--it's just without the chest brace, that style brace does get awfully tiring. I actually end up cradling the shoulder pad part under my right arm and hold the camera more like a rifle when using that style brace.

 

[Ralph Oshiro]

Yep, just when the cameras start to lighten up, the "next big thing" comes along and we're right back where we started from a weight standpoint.

That's what I keep saying, Mike. Even when the essential camera electronics get down to about 5 lbs., then they'll invent 3D-holographic, smello-vision cameras in the year 2020, and they'll STILL be 25 f**king pounds!!!