A9III with GLOBAL shutter

scorsesefan said:
Just came back from the Sony Creators event. Really cool. I had a long conversation with Sony's Cinema Line Product Mgr. No FX6II or FX3II for a couple of years. No immediate plans for an fx9II. They're going to eventually implement the global shutter in their cinema line. I have his email, so I'm going to ask him about E-nd in the fx3II and IBIS in the FX6II, as well as shutter angle via firmware implementation in the fx3...
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That confirms what I thought. There are things we would like internal nd or stabilization for the FX3 but that doesn't reflect the feature sets they have already designated. They aren't going re-engineer a camera. There would have to be some major change to sensor or processor tech to justify a new version. Most cameras are sold until they're ready to discontinue them.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Abe, what about a used a1? 4K XACI-I @ 120 fps looks great. It would probably cost less than a new a9iii. I've been very happy with my a1 and use it for video more than I ever expected.
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I had looked at the a1 and decided that the features weren't the best fit for me. And also that I would be paying extra for photo capabilities I don't need.

And at this point, I'd very much like to get something with the latest AF advancements -- human pose estimation, etc. And if they've improved the IBIS, that would be welcome as well.

Sony did register 2 other cameras recently and we should expect to see those announced by February at the latest. Maybe there will be something there for me... it would be great to shovel the new camera money out the door during this tax year, though...

Eoshd has pixel peeped some raw stills and concluded that the a9iii is at least 1 step worse than the a9ii in terms of noise and probably has less dynamic range as well. https://www.eoshd.com/news/sony-a9-iii-high-iso-raw-test-a-noisier-6k-sensor-than-predecessor/
 
drboffa said:
Thanks for the insight, scorsesefan .

Any updates on whether they're considering a true S35 cinema camera? I.e., something in a proper body with internal NDs and the usual connections? I love my FX6 but when people started speculating about an "FX60" I was more than a little intrigued by the idea.
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I didn't ask him specifically about about a s35 fx6 style camera, but they seem to be content on holding steady with their current lineup. His logic, which I can't argue with, is many people didn't get their fx6/fx3 until 2022 because of supply chain issues. Although they did put out the fx30...
 
Peter C. said:
That confirms what I thought. There are things we would like internal nd or stabilization for the FX3 but that doesn't reflect the feature sets they have already designated. They aren't going re-engineer a camera. There would have to be some major change to sensor or processor tech to justify a new version. Most cameras are sold until they're ready to discontinue them.
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And the sales numbers on the fx3/6 are really good from what I've heard...
 
scorsesefan said:
And the sales numbers on the fx3/6 are really good from what I've heard...
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Its common place across all brands. People get upset at the slow rate of progress and rightly so... Manufactures are more motivated by their competitors. If they aren't releasing new models in that segment and sales are good there's no reason to change anything. Look at how long people waited on the GH6 and after all those years they didn't even fix the most glaring issue the AF.

For years you could see that influencers and vloggers wanted certain features (flip out screens and wide angle zooms). The camera companies were so slow to take a hint. After losing all those sales to smart phones and they were gifted with a new market. They have this attitude that they know better when they clearly don't.

Imagine if they adopted a phone based operating system and offered anual updates with software improvements. Or allowed 3rd parties to develop for their cameras. People would happily pay for that if it was offered.
 
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Peter C. said:
Imagine if they adopted a phone based operating system and offered anual updates with software improvements. Or allowed 3rd parties to develop for their cameras. People would happily pay for that if it was offered.
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Japanese camera manufacturers seem structurally / culturally incapable of making decent software. Perhaps allowing 3rd parties to develop apps for cameras would create an awful mess but if it worked…

I’d pay quite a lot of money for a realtime Izotope RX plugin for the FX6.
 
Andy9 said:
Japanese camera manufacturers seem structurally / culturally incapable of making decent software. Perhaps allowing 3rd parties to develop apps for cameras would create an awful mess but if it worked…

I’d pay quite a lot of money for a realtime Izotope RX plugin for the FX6.
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Not to argue against my own argument but doesn't Sony make a smart phone. Is it too out of the question to integrate their existing tech from one product into another.

How long did it take these camera manufactures to start using touch screens. They're like 10 years behind the current phone technology. The screens are absurdly bad in comparison to what's actually available.
 
Sony has the Monitor and Control app out. I haven't used it but I think it's probably similar to Blackmagic's camera app for the iPhone

So, in a way they are already relying on phone software to improve the user interface of their cameras

95% of my interactions with my mirrorless cameras go through the Monitor+ app. That's not produced by Sony but it's probably the inspiration for their own Monitor and Control app
 
Peter C. said:
Not to argue against my own argument but doesn't Sony make a smart phone. Is it too out of the question to integrate their existing tech from one product into another.

How long did it take these camera manufactures to start using touch screens. They're like 10 years behind the current phone technology. The screens are absurdly bad in comparison to what's actually available.
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Andy9 said:
Japanese camera manufacturers seem structurally / culturally incapable of making decent software. Perhaps allowing 3rd parties to develop apps for cameras would create an awful mess but if it worked…

I’d pay quite a lot of money for a realtime Izotope RX plugin for the FX6.
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This is why this Galapagos Island stopped being competitive. You can expect any company anywhere else in the world to have an open API to let third parties enhance the experience for end users, but not in Japan.
 
The only thing that hurts this camera for me is the 24 megapixels. I've seen how this turns out with my original A7S with its 12 megapixels, great for video but when I need photos I'm hampered compared to the 21 megapixels I was coming from out of my Canon 5D Mark II and it becomes very apparent over time. Now I'm dropping down from the 45 megapixels of my much older Nikon D850 to 24 of the A9III? That's ridiculous even if it gets a global shutter! Of course, full frame 24 megapixels works for many things but when I'm looking at 50 from the Sony A1 or even 102 of the Fuji GFX100 II for around the same price and they have good 8K video too, that's a deal breaker and puts the A9III in a specialized niche category in my book. What is even more intriguing is what Sony will do next now that they've figured out global shutter for high end E mount use. I could see the possibility of upgrading the FX3 and FX6 with this sensor but giving 6K as an option due to added processing instead of scaled 4K from 6K, then that would be a nice bump in the lineup with global shutter capability as the main selling point but the one problem there is mainstream 8K is clearly the next phase in video so introducing 6K models could be a short lived release span.
 
I don't think the A9iii is for me... no S-I codec in 4k120. substantially worse ISO performance than a7siii and probably moderately less DR (remains to be seen).

This is a bit disappointing because it would have been nice to throw money out the door this fiscal year. But I don't see a new camera for me and the new 85 GM has not been released either...

According to sonyalpharumors.com, the only remaining camera that Sony registered and has not yet announced is going to be an FX "camcorder" type camera, so probably a successor to the FX9 or FX6. But this will be released probably in January. This could be interesting to me if it's similar to the Burano. I'm probably not going to bite on a cine camera that doesn't have IBIS. I like IBIS too much.

SAR thinks there may be an A7SIV coming next year, some time after February. But I don't think that's based on any solid intelligence, more just the fact that the a7siii is getting old.

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/con...iv-nor-the-a1ii-its-a-video-focused-model-fx/
 
I expect the global shutter to take some time to be in the wild, improve and come down in price. The A1 is effective up to 1/400th in electronic shutter mode which covers a lot of "normal" still shooting situations with excellent quality. Now, the A9III is mainly useful for high power sports shooters and maybe wildlife folks who really need pre-roll RAW shooting capabilities. Quality is yet to really be seen. The one thing that nobody knows is if the global shutter in the A9III will produce a more filmic cadence to the video. If so, this will be a large step forward.
 
ahalpert said:
I don't think the A9iii is for me... no S-I codec in 4k120. substantially worse ISO performance than a7siii and probably moderately less DR (remains to be seen).

This is a bit disappointing because it would have been nice to throw money out the door this fiscal year. But I don't see a new camera for me and the new 85 GM has not been released either...

According to sonyalpharumors.com, the only remaining camera that Sony registered and has not yet announced is going to be an FX "camcorder" type camera, so probably a successor to the FX9 or FX6. But this will be released probably in January. This could be interesting to me if it's similar to the Burano. I'm probably not going to bite on a cine camera that doesn't have IBIS. I like IBIS too much.

SAR thinks there may be an A7SIV coming next year, some time after February. But I don't think that's based on any solid intelligence, more just the fact that the a7siii is getting old.

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/conf...used-model-fx/
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Abe, unless the head of the Sony Cinema line was lying to me it won’t be an fx6II or fx3II…
 
I'm not sure what obligation this person has to disclose future Sony releases..but it's highly likely Sony releases the FX6II next year with the same basic sensor that is used in the A9III.

I'd bet the sensor's meaningful DR hit will be effectively overcome in the FX6II shooting video by combining two exposures as Canon, Panasonic (in M43) and others have done (won't be available for all shooting scenarios)
 
hojomo said:
I'm not sure what obligation this person has to disclose future Sony releases..but it's highly likely Sony releases the FX6II next year with the same basic sensor that is used in the A9III.

I'd bet the sensor's meaningful DR hit will be effectively overcome in the FX6II shooting video by combining two exposures as Canon, Panasonic (in M43) and others have done (won't be available for all shooting scenarios)
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He said a couple of years. His reasoning was that the fx3/6 didn’t really get into people’s hands until 2022 because of the supply chain shortages. Plus they’re selling like hot cakes. I have no reason to believe he wasn’t telling the truth…
 
ahalpert said:
Fx9ii then... makes sense, it's the oldest. I might bite depending on price and features. But probably not
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My worry is that they overcooked the a7Siii and FX6 making them stronger than they needed to be (perhaps they panicked about Canon beating them to 8K) and they now consider this a mistake. I was certainly surprised by how much even the a7Siii stepped on the FX9's toes, let alone the FX6.

I wouldn't want us to return to something more like their previous market segmentation where if I want a waveform monitor I've got to spend over 10k. Even worse than this though, would be if the 10k model still has the FX9's form factor. I'll pay 10k for the higher-end model if it's great (IBIS and eND please) but I don't want a bigger camera than the FX6 for single op.
 
Andy9 said:
My worry is that they overcooked the a7Siii and FX6 making them stronger than they needed to be (perhaps they panicked about Canon beating them to 8K) and they now consider this a mistake. I was certainly surprised by how much even the a7Siii stepped on the FX9's toes, let alone the FX6.

I wouldn't want us to return to something more like their previous market segmentation where if I want a waveform monitor I've got to spend over 10k. Even worse than this though, would be if the 10k model still has the FX9's form factor. I'll pay 10k for the higher-end model if it's great (IBIS and eND please) but I don't want a bigger camera than the FX6 for single op.
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sounds like you want a Burano, but cheaper.

maybe what would be groovy would be an $8k FX6mk2 with an a9iii sensor and then if you want extra audio and power connections you buy a rear extension module....let's say for $4k. maybe that also lets you record raw internally. so then you have an $8k and a $12k configuration with the same sensor. and it only records 6K so in theory you're still getting a "better" image with a venice 2 or a burano

but I think the most likely thing is to see an fx9 ii for $12k and an fx6 ii for $8k. the fx6 ii could be a 6k sensor. I'm not sure how the market segmentation works between an fx9 ii and a burano... where is the room for differentiation
 
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