A7s worth ditching the FS700 for?

C

ChadN

Well-known member
Hey all, i've got the FS700 + 7Q right now. Amazing combo, of course. However, i find myself solo shooting a lot and the combo is pretty cumbersome to be honest. I deliver content for YouTube, and i'm really just thinking of getting a SMALLER camera. Something i can toss on my Blackbird Stabilzer, or use with my Stealth Slider and not have to set up major support at both ends. Something i can manually focus handheld, even with a monitor/recorder sitting on top of it.

I'm pretty interested in the A7s (or it's eventual replacement). I'm not too excited about losing the quick access to the large number of buttons on the side of the camera, quickly accessing video shooting controls on the FS7000 is great.

Anyway, just looking for some opinions on how the A7s is to work with and handle. And if i'm going to keep a 7Q+ attached to it, would i be better off just keeping the FS700. Or perhaps a totally different camera.
 
i've been working with the camera for a few weeks now (read my bit about my first time using it here) and it's not without it's shortcomings. but if you want something lighter and more portable, it certainly can deliver that for you. the internal codec is a bit limiting, though still better than a lot of other cameras in it's price range. the 7Q could mount to the top with a coldshoe mount i imagine (i have a pretty hefty rig myself) and you'd still be pretty light-weight.
you can program a lot of the custom buttons on it to bring up menus you want. any feature i regularly use is at most 3 clicks away. but honestly i think you should try it yourself first... see how you like it.
full frame is a bit of a different beast... as is slog2 on the a7s... being locked in at a minimum iso of 3200 meant i bought different things (like an nd throttle lens mount) than i would if i were on another camera, and the full frame meant i looked at a slightly different grouping of lenses (i settled on the nikon 28-70 and 80-200 2.8)
it's low light is second-to-none though.
can you rent one locally, or even via lensrentals or similar site?
 
I use the FS700 and the A7S and have worked with FS700+7Q footage. The A7S has improved color over the FS700, and if you only need 60p slomo and don't need on-camera XLR audio (without an add-on), the A7S can replace the FS700. For internal recording, the A7S is much better. For external recording, the FS700 can do 422+ 10+ bits, but isn't needed in most cases unless doing extreme grading in post.
 
You will love the A7s :) great quality and low profile. Everyone keeps looking at me when i film with a fs700. No one pays attention to me when i film with a7s. They think I'm taking pictures. The kit lens is all you need for run and gun yt vids. Shoot in apsc 50/60p and use warp stabiliser if you need to use a fast non sony lens handheld. While shooting interviews in FF @f/2.8 my subjects get out of focus with every move forward. It's so freakin' shallow. I started shooting @5.6 just to make sure ppl stay in focus when they move a lot. Just try it. Imho you won't be going back to fs700. The best camera is the one you can have with you all the time.
 
The a7S will almost certainly fit your needs. You may find that you don't hook up the Odyssey as much as you might anticipate now. As jurny says, this camera allows you to go low profile. The OLED viewfinder is truly amazing and allows you to focus easily, even the LCD on the back is better than most LCDs on the bigger cameras.

The internal audio is good. Has the same quality and noise floor as the bigger Sony cameras. Internal mics are cheap condensers built into the unit. There is an external audio module that is quite pricey but worth it if you rely on phantom XLR connectors. You can put a Sennheiser (or the like wireless) in the hot shoe and go into the mini jack. Good idea to get a -35 dB attentuation cable. Of course, you will need to use ND filters or a Variable ND if you are shooting outside. For stealth config I use the Sony 18-105 lens. If I want truly good lens optics I use my good Nikon or PL lenses with an adapter.

I do though have a full size camera for studio setups. Sounds like you want to move from the FS700 to the a7S. I see them as different tools but realize that budget for some means you have to choose one over the other.

Camera announcements will be thick and fast over the next 7 weeks in the lead up to NAB. Common wisdom is the a7S successor won't be coming as soon as NAB but you never quite know.
 
The A7s is great I use it a lot, I sold my FS700 and got the FS7, great cam too.

The biggest negative in the A7s is the lack of NDs built in. Other than that I would say it is a no brainer. It compliments a 7 or 700 really well. But I would not want it as my only camera. I always like to show up on shoots with at least 2, just in case, most of the time I use 3. The FS7, A7s and EX3. They compliment each other perfectly. For shoulder R&G the EX3 is the king, with real ENG lens and easy to nail focus with ½" sensor. The A7s as B to the FS7 and low light wonder, not to mention inconspicuous.

Just my nickel.
 
The a7S is a lot smaller and IIRC has slightly better DR when recording internally on the FS700 (from the blind test someone shot when the a7S came out). The 1080p is very nice, if you can live without 4K it will make your bag surprisingly light. Even with the external recorder, you're losing a couple of pounds. Then again, those pounds correspond to the internal ND, XLR, lots of buttons, etc, that you may find you miss more than you anticipate. Have you shot mainly with a DSLR before?
 
I have both the FS700 and the A7s.
The A7s is very nice, but like Olof, I wouldn't want it as my only camera. Main reason for that is that I often film live shows that are longer than 29m50s. And I hate the jittery shakes from hand held DSLR footage. I just can't stand it. And even if the FS700 is less than ideal for handheld work, it looks so much nicer. And it actually works surprisingly well for short things if using light lenses like the Sony SEL 50mm or 35mm.
I don't know, even if you rig them, DSLRs just seem to get those tiny shakes. So you have to add some weight to the rig. Which defeats the purpose of going with a smaller camera to begin with. On the other hand, that shaky, crappy footage is getting to be the norm and people don't seem to mind so much, but I just can't stand it.

That said, internally the A7s looks nicer than the FS700. It's a subtle difference, but colours and dynamic range is slightly better. But I seem to get more predictable results from the FS700. Maybe I just haven't used the A7s enough.

I have been toying with the idea of selling the FS700 and get a second A7s. But the limited recording time, and the fact that it just looks more impressive (important aspect in some situations) to show up with a proper video camera at shoots makes me keep the FS700. Oh, and I also hope to be able to afford the 7Q one day to get that 10bit that I long for to take my grading to the next level.

I find having both is very nice. You can leave the FS700 on the tripod and quickly grab the A7s to shoot some b-roll or alternative angles, knowing that your small camera is as good, if not better, as your main camera.

The FS700 is very expensive to rig and expand with stabilizers etc, which is maybe my main issue with it. I just can't afford to pay €1000 or something that ridiculous just to be able to occasionally put it on my shoulder. With the A7s you get away with smaller/cheaper sliders, stabilizers etc.

If I absolutely had to pick one of them? Difficult, but I think the FS700.
 
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I haven't worked with the A7s, but I know it's a different beast. I've been looking into it as a B-cam/low-light cam.

With that said, even if you're just posting to youtube, that only speaks to your delivery method. And while 8bit footage will look plenty nice on YouTube (I shot plenty fs700 internal to know), I think if you get rid of your fs700 and only replace it with the a7s, you might find yourself missing some key production-side capabilities.

For example, for shooting long events, you might be in a situation where the 30 minute record limit (off memory I believe that's a feature of the a7s) will hinder you from properly capturing the event. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the a7s is limited to 8-bit recording, even with an external recorder. This will put limits on your grading capabilities. Even if you're gonna deliver to youtube, I think that having that extra room in post (10bit) is very valuable. Specially if you want to monetize your practice.

I think some great points have been made on this thread. And I certainly think it's nice to be able to capture 4k and be able to potentially down-res to HD 444 (which you could probably do with your a7s). But would I replace my FS700 for an a7s? My answer would be that I would not give up my fs700 and odyssey combo (which you also have) for an exclusively 8bit format. Now, as a second camera to have for the jobs where the a7s will be more suited for, given its limitations, I'd say it could be a smart move.

And one one last thing, I just shot a wedding in New Orleans this past week, with night time events and even a night time parade through the French quarter, and I have to say that the FS700 footage held up really well considering the circumstances. I was recording 4k2HD on the odyssey, paired with fast Nikkor primes on a Speedbooster ULTRA. It was all low wattage, dim incandescent lighting at these events (very low light, old-timey romantic atmosphere), so I found myself even upping the gain on the FS700...which I rarely do! And while the O7Q footage came out pretty noisy (since it has no NR) given the circumstances, but some light Neatvideo brought it back to life and my clients (and I) were super happy with the footage. This would have been a situation where I might have opted for going exclusively a7s, had I actually owned one, but I'm glad I didn't since the grading capability of the 10bit ProRes was great for post work. Not to mention that the speeches were all pretty long and lasted for almost an hour. Imagine if my a7s had cut off during the father of the bride's speech?!?!?

you may not ever need longer shooting times or need for 10bit, in which case, a7s is for you. But if you ever will need these things, well, then you know what to do.

Just my two cents. Good luck on your decision and your work!
 
I would never give up my FS700 to have an A7s only.

The A7s complements your FS700. The A7s is lacking in many features that prevent it from being used professionally 100% of the time.

Also as of today, many LUTs are out there for FS700's Slog2. You'll need to do some finaggaling to get the color to look as good on the A7s since (my guess) is that it has a different color gamut.
 
IMHO No, it's a compliment but it's not quite there yet, maybe the A7s Mk II (one day)

For me it's the rolling shutter that is its biggest problem and not when sweeping left and right but just when moving around normally. It's especially bad when moving up and down because the rolling shutter creates the jello effect. If you're hand holding then it's very easy to impart micro movements, muscle twitches and those quick vibrations result in jello wobbles. You generally only see that full size, full res, so it can catch you out. If you only ever watch web based stuff then it may be fine.

If you're stabilised or on a tripod or have a heavy rig then you can minimise it.

I do have post workflow that can be very successful but it's not ideal.

The FS700 4K is also still sharper than the A7s 4K, like for like. However the A7s controls noise better but then because there is no RAW output that noise is quite ugly (i mean the noise has either gone through XAVC compression or it's been 422'd out of the HDMI)

I don't know about range, it's similar though. I intend to do some outdoors tests because ideally (despite what i say above) i want to use the A7s and a gimbal for some shots. But i don't know whether they'd work for me just yet.

If the A7s had

1. Faster read out time
2. Sensor stabilisation
3. 10 bit output at 4K

It would be better than the FS700

cheers
Paul
 
I was having very similar thoughts, this week... Enough to even put the FS700/O7Q on eBay....

Then we did a shoot this week and the footage was stunning. 240fps at 2K with all that DR, wow. The FS700 is staying, but maybe with an a7s (or GH4, if it gets p-log)
 
We shoot on a a7s, and love it for low light event stuff. However, I doubt that a cine (like) FF lens such as the 28-135 FE was introduced for only mirrorless cameras like the a7 series. I am waiting for NAB to see a FF emount video body. If their roadmap stopped with a Super 35 such as the FS7 then the 28-135 does not make sense.
 
I've decided to keep the FS700 for now. I didn't realize it was only 8bit out... even while recording 10 bit on an external recorder. After upgrading to 10 bit 7Q with the FS700, i don't think i could ever go back to 8 bit! Then there's the other thread about A7s skin tones. And any jello effect at all kills my eyes! I think i'll deal with the larger set up of the FS700+7Q for a while. Thanks for the replies.
 
SuperSet said:
Ah, thanks. I just checked the FS7 specs and it looks like it doesn't even do 480fps or 960fps like the FS700.
Click to expand...

I imagine you might already be aware of this, but in the chance it may be helpful, the fs700 only does 480 and 960fps at reduced resolutions (720 and 480, I believe). Some people have gotten usable results with 480fps, but it's not considered to be a "pro" feature of the fs700.
 
Didn't know that. I thought it was all 1080P as I saw YT samples and thought they looked fine, albeit a little soft.
 
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