a7s III: Phenomenal Rolling Shutter results

[jonpais]

DPReview just posted their rolling shutter results:
4K 60p / 30p / 24p 8.7ms
4K 120p 7.7ms
4K Steady Shot Active
(60p / 30p / 24P) 7.8ms

Those are phenomenal numbers to be sure.
Sony did not sheepishly follow the marketing hype
around more Ks - which Steve Yedlin brilliantly smashes - and instead chose to go
with larger, juicy pixels - not tiny smartphone photosites  -
allowing for faster readout times, greater DR, increased low light
sensitivity and better S/N ratio. Same as Arri’s philosophy.
The 4K 120p footage looks nice and crispy.
Along with 13 stops of dynamic range, full pixel readout 120p, crazy lowlight
ability, improved color science, updated ergos, excellent AF even when shooting
log ETTR, the a7s III is shaping up to
be a very compelling option. I just hope Paul Leeming gets his hands on this beast
soon, because his LUTs for the a7 III have transformed it into a totally new
camera, with excellent skin tones and accurate color rendition. Having two extra stops
of dynamic range and 10-bit means we’ll have much more flexibility in post to fine
tune the footage even more.

 

[Guest]

so good.

 

[ahalpert]

Hey those leeming luts look great. Thanks for the tip. I just wish we could load luts into the camera.

Yeah the A7SIII has really strong fundamentals. I wish we could control the sharpening in camera and turn it down. It looks a little too crispy to me sometimes. Maybe we can. But yeah the 4K120p blows that of the R5 out of the water, before you even consider the massive bitrate advantage and SD card recording

 

[jonpais]

Hey those leeming luts look great. Thanks for the tip. I just wish we could load luts into the camera.

Yeah the A7SIII has really strong fundamentals. I wish we could control the sharpening in camera and turn it down. It looks a little too crispy to me sometimes. Maybe we can. But yeah the 4K120p blows that of the R5 out of the water, before you even consider the massive bitrate advantage and SD card recording

Yeah, some of the slow motion I’ve seen has been oversharpened. Can’t sharpening be reduced in camera like the a7 III?

 

[ahalpert]

Yeah, some of the slow motion I’ve seen has been oversharpened. Can’t sharpening be reduced in camera like the a7 III?

Maybe I don't know. Philip Bloom said that you can't turn off noise reduction in-camera. So I thought - maybe you can't turn off sharpening either. I downloaded a sample clip from Gordon laing's vimeo page to grade, and I ended up putting a slight gaussian blur on it to soften out the detail.

I mean, if you record RAW from the camera you should be able to bypass all that and do whatever you want.

And either way, the sharpening would not be a dealbreaker for me

 

[Guest]

Steve Yedlin

My only comment, is that Steve Yedlin was trying to say that DP's should be able to choose the Alexa over a RED or Sony. Maybe he didn't say that directly, but his test was to show that image quality is more than K's and that the choice should be up to the DP, and not some hype or some engineer or marketing dept somewhere no one has ever met or heard of.

Now, I get where you are going, in that Sony chose the better sum of averages in video features, and I am in that same mindset with you. I am really happy that Sony chose 12MP over some fancy QUAD bayer sensor. And like you are showing with the RS numbers, that is just one of the benefits.

However, RED's still look better than the Sony A7s3, so trying to sprinkle some of that Yedlin fairy dust on the A7s3 is likely skewing Yedlin's point. Because if Yedlin was fighting for the idea that DP's should be able to choose the Alexa 2K over some 8K RED or Sony, then it is because the image quality is better.... so why would Yedlin try to prove that a Sony A7s3 is better than a RED or Sony Venice? He wouldn't. So, I don't think Yedlin was promoting the idea of less resolution, but that image quality is a sum of parts and right now resolution is not as important as other factors. Many of those factors the Sony A7s3 does not meet. BUT, and this is a big BUT, the Sony A7s3 raw files are likely to be amazing to work with, and I think the A7s3 is definitively a BMPCC6K killer.

 

[ahalpert]

I think you're right, although the A7S3 + Ninja V is double the cost of the BMPCC6K. But factoring in the range of necessary accessories for both cameras, a shooting package is probably only 1.5x the cost. Close enough

 

[Guest]

I think you're right, although the A7S3 + Ninja V is double the cost of the BMPCC6K. But factoring in the range of necessary accessories for both cameras, a shooting package is probably only 1.5x the cost. Close enough

Exactly. It is more expensive, but it may be worth it unless one plans to:

be stuck with EF mount
never use an external monitor
love jello rolling shutter
always shoot raw internal without an external monitor
love less DR
you hate flip screens and EVF's?
you hate E mount and all the benefits?
You never want to work in ff35
you don't want the possibility of AF
you dislike better battery life
never shoot under moonlight for any sort of anything
never work with Fs7 or Fx9 or many other Sony's?

 

[ahalpert]

What if you're buying a camera with the money you saved eating ramen for 6 months? You're probably getting a P4K

 

[Guest]

What if you're buying a camera with the money you saved eating ramen for 6 months? You're probably getting a P4K

I actually love the P4K. But that is because it is a great M43 camera with the M43 mount. It offers something unique, like the ability to use small long fast zooms. The 6K, despite having somewhat higher IQ, lives in an increasingly crowded market. Meanwhile the RS is meh, and the DR is meh, and the body is the largest in class, and the battery life is really bad. So, the BMP4k is actually one of the best in class for the format, regardless of price.

 

[jonpais]

My only comment, is that Steve Yedlin was trying to say that DP's should be able to choose the Alexa over a RED or Sony. Maybe he didn't say that directly, but his test was to show that image quality is more than K's and that the choice should be up to the DP, and not some hype or some engineer or marketing dept somewhere no one has ever met or heard of.

Now, I get where you are going, in that Sony chose the better sum of averages in video features, and I am in that same mindset with you. I am really happy that Sony chose 12MP over some fancy QUAD bayer sensor. And like you are showing with the RS numbers, that is just one of the benefits.

However, RED's still look better than the Sony A7s3, so trying to sprinkle some of that Yedlin fairy dust on the A7s3 is likely skewing Yedlin's point. Because if Yedlin was fighting for the idea that DP's should be able to choose the Alexa 2K over some 8K RED or Sony, then it is because the image quality is better.... so why would Yedlin try to prove that a Sony A7s3 is better than a RED or Sony Venice? He wouldn't. So, I don't think Yedlin was promoting the idea of less resolution, but that image quality is a sum of parts and right now resolution is not as important as other factors. Many of those factors the Sony A7s3 does not meet. BUT, and this is a big BUT, the Sony A7s3 raw files are likely to be amazing to work with, and I think the A7s3 is definitively a BMPCC6K killer.

1. I wasn’t sprinking dust on anything, nor was I implying that the a7s III was better than a RED. The image quality of the a7s III is fine in my book. Sounds like we basically agree on priorities though.

 

[Guest]

1. I wasn’t sprinking dust on anything, nor was I implying that the a7s III was better than a RED. The image quality of the a7s III is fine in my book. Sounds like we basically agree on priorities though.

Yes, I think you and I are on the same page. It is pretty great that Sony prioritized most of the things that are important to video and also kept the "moonlight for daylight" aspect of the camera, as there really is no other camera like it, in that regard.

Apologies if I was too strong on the fairy dust comment. The Yedlin thing is a bit of a trigger for me. Bt overall, I think you are spot on. Love your perspective.

 

[jonpais]

Yes, I think you and I are on the same page. It is pretty great that Sony prioritized most of the things that are important to video and also kept the "moonlight for daylight" aspect of the camera, as there really is no other camera like it, in that regard.

Apologies if I was too strong on the fairy dust comment. The Yedlin thing is a bit of a trigger for me. Bt overall, I think you are spot on. Love your perspective.

Thanks.

 

[ahalpert]

Yes, I think you and I are on the same page. It is pretty great that Sony prioritized most of the things that are important to video and also kept the "moonlight for daylight" aspect of the camera, as there really is no other camera like it, in that regard.

Apologies if I was too strong on the fairy dust comment. The Yedlin thing is a bit of a trigger for me. Bt overall, I think you are spot on. Love your perspective.

What's sort of funny is I think that sony crippled the camera for hybrid shooters by focusing solely on the video side. What we see as a strength others see as a disqualifier. But we're us not them so what do we care. Lucky us