A7R mk II Announced - 42.4MP, 5-axis Stabilization, Internal 4k, $3,200.

Well, right now, on the amazon best seller list, it's between the a7 and the a7R, so it can't be too bad, but only Sony knows if that's enough to warrant the development cost of a new sensor for the a7S II.

In terms of what they could do, you're exactly right: the a7R II in S35 mode reads all the photosites and creates a 4K image that they think is top notch. They could do the same out of a 18 Mpix FF sensor, and if they make it BSI it could mantain or improve the ISO performance. Give it in-sensor phase-detect AF, and it's a very fine stills camera too.

Now, about price, I wouldn't be nearly as optimistic...

model - launch - launch price in $ - equivalent yen at that time
a7 - oct 2013 - $1700 - 166,600 Y
a7R - oct 2013 - $2300 - 225,400 Y
a7S - may 2014 - $2500 - 255,000 Y
a7 II - nov 2014 - $1700 - 195,000 Y
a7R II - jun 2015 - $3200 - 400,000 Y

I don't see them getting any cheaper...
 
if the the backlit sensor design brings the same advantages for the full frame sensor as it does for the smaller ones (and i don't see why it shouldn't) the low light performance of this might just be the biggest improvement in terms of image quality....sony has checked all the right boxes with this camera, pixel count, body (i have the 7II and it might be the best camera "in hand" i have ever used) AF, internal 4K, i am waiting to see DR but knowing sony they just won't come out with a new flagship with lower specs....and the price is right as well....
a couple of other things to consider: so far nikon always got the first batch of new sensors from sony to put into their pro bodies...this is over now and it will hurt nikon.....
canon 5Ds specs and price don't compare too well.....worst is that the DR of the 5Ds is about a stop worse then 5D3 which wasn't that great to begin with....low light won't be that great either (because of the high mpix) and it is 20% more expensive....maybe some hacker will get more out of the camera but the only reason it will sell is because people have canon glass and it is the new body so why not.....
but i would not be surprised if people will get better files and performance out of their canon glass with this new sony body....all at a lower price....
 
Samuel H said:
... I don't see them getting any cheaper...
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Well, everything is getting cheaper ... except the lenses (really, someone ought to do something about this). IMO, the next iteration of GH4 (GH5?) will compact the market again and, when 4K APS-C cameras appear, premiums will be hard to come by.

As to sensors - Sony could easily spread the costs over several product lines, even with the identical unit. Much like JVC LS300 is offering multiple geometry with its AltaSense s35, Sony could do likewise with the updated A7s - full frame with more pixels (~ 18-20) for the upper niche; s35 with "only' 4K for the middle niche; et cetera. And considering the spec quality of these products, it wouldn't be farfetched to see them even on $20,000 cameras. In which case, they will be installed in a lot of Sony products, from ~ $2,500 and up and that will spread the R&D costs quiet nicely for them without even involving the third party purchasers (and there will be plenty of those too, for sure).
 
Peer said:
Just wait for the 1DC2 (or 1DX2)... I bet Canon must have something up their sleeves, otherwise they're dead in the drink.

-- peer
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Ya, 1D X2 - or whatever it will be called - is allegedly out in testers hands. Rumors have them with a 25 MPX Canon designed and made sensor but not much info besides that. If the early rumor nibbles are correct - and they do make sense for a 1D X/C replacement - it'd be a combination of low light/high ISO + high FPS + internal 4K + fast auto-focus + dual chip beast.

But, even if you add all of those things up, it'd stll need a high bit rate internal recording and maybe/likely ND filters to make itself worth its purchase price.
 
DLD said:
it'd stll need a high bit rate internal recording and maybe/likely ND filters to make itself worth its purchase price.
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As long as this "1DX2" gets 4k, 10-bit, with peaking & zebras, I'm in.

-- peer
 
Canon lacks DR in RAW stills mode, which means they lack DR in video mode too. But even more importantly, they lack the will to bring out anything interesting at a reasonable price. The C300II is absolutely great, but five times the cost of the a7R II.

Current state of affairs is: on a "what camera should I buy for my son" thread, I just ended my answer with "almost anything, except Canon".
 
Samuel H said:
Canon lacks DR in RAW stills mode, which means they lack DR in video mode too. But even more importantly, they lack the will to bring out anything interesting at a reasonable price. The C300II is absolutely great, but five times the cost of the a7R II.

Current state of affairs is: on a "what camera should I buy for my son" thread, I just ended my answer with "almost anything, except Canon".
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I don't know man. I know a lot of top notch stills shooters and we all agree on one thing. That Sony's color just doesn't cut it compared to Canon. I have Canon's and I have the Sony A7s and R. I have a Nikon too. I have panny's and BMD and Leica's. For stills, "DR" or not, I grab my Canon 98% of the time. In fact, the Sony A7r is quite garbage for stills. They totally messed up on the shutter. They better have addressed that if you want images without the shutter shake, especially at 42Mp's. All that resolution doesn't do any good if the shutter is shaking the camera. My good buddy, a top of the shelf celebrity portrait shooter, tried going Sony A7r because "Canon just couldn't keep up" and states that he and his clients could not stand the color coming from it. His clients demand high MP capture so he usually works with medium format backs, but they are temperamental. We talked today for an hour on some of these cameras coming out for stills (5Ds and the A7rII) and both agreed that while the A7rII looks like a camera that does it all on paper, it probably won't fly in the advertising world due to Sony's color. DR or not... If the client don't like the image...

Kudos to Sony for making these cameras. A7rII looks good on paper and in thought. But they are making so many cameras it's as if they are shooting themselves in the foot.
 
* I was talking video, for stills it can be completely different. Personally I'm not a Canon fan in that area either, but it's definitely competitive there.

* The shutter thing seems to be fixed (the II has electronic first curtain).

* The color thing is a bit subjective. I switched to Sony 3 years ago and I don't miss the Canon colors at all. YMMV

* As I posted on the NEX subforum, my main concern about the a7R II for video right now is the bitrate in internal 4K. Let's hope what I'm seeing is just a youtube thing.
 
A7rii is a clear indication that Sony have a sensor technology to release a pro camera that would totally swipe everyone out. They're not releasing it yet because it would upset all the F5/55 users. But who knows? Maybe next NAB? Have to agree on colours. Fortunately I think Sony is slowly learning that(i.e. Alexa looks on fs7)

Edit:
Bold statement but maybe Sony is not delivering those demanded colours on purpose??? They're delivering sensors to all major brands, if they will master colours why would you pick Canon/nikon etc.? That might have killed all of them what would mean lost sensor sales. Could stir and move market in unpredictable direction.
 
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"Sony Color" vs "Canon Color" is pretty meaningless when you are shooting RAW.

The MAIN thing Sony needs to fix is the 11bit compressed raw in their cameras.

That is where Nikon and Canon kill them.
 
F65 colors are fantastic due to its oversampling 20 MPX-into-4K sensor. A7r MK II will have 14-15 MPX-into-4K oversampling, which bodes well for its colors.

In the F5/55/65 subforum, I've brought up the fact that the entire line is getting old in the tooth and, if a $3,200 model has oversampling into 4K, there stands no reason for the high end/pro lineup not to have it also. Seemingly, the simplest way for them to do so is to migrate the F65 sensor down to F5/55 replacements while making F65 replacement into a FF 4K/6K model. Once again, with A7R MK II having a full readout 8K sensor, this model can serve as a preliminary tech that makes into the high end/pro lineup without the self-crippling of the bit rate, HDMI outputs, Raw (or lack thereof), the related media, etc.
 
In crop mode it does oversample a bit, but in full frame mode it doesn't: from what I've read it seems like it skips lines and rows, and does a one-to-one pixel-to-pixel debayer.
 
Funny thing, none of those 3 new cameras have been announced by Sony in Japan.
Camera news sites are actually translating the english press release and speculating prices (due to USD vs JPY rates)
 
alohype said:
A7rii is a clear indication that Sony have a sensor technology to release a pro camera that would totally swipe everyone out. They're not releasing it yet because it would upset all the F5/55 users. .
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They don't have to right now because even their miniature sized A7 line-up makes the competition look completely stupid. Like a classic cheesy movie. It's too funny.

But seriously speaking, Sony is playing gentle politics with the old Sony. Remember this is the first time ever that Sony has exhibited insane levels of innovation + rapid release dates ever in the history of any camera company.

They need to be careful not to "allow" their innovation and rapid release cycles to upset previous owners. But I wouldn't mind if they did because this is an exciting ride they are taking us on!
 
Oh I do hope they 'upset' previous owners. That's what innovation is.
Just because there's a newer, better camera doesn't mean your current one is obsolete and won't shoot nice pictures :P
 
My first thought when considering this camera is that I am not fond of the Sony look. Last Sony camera I owned was an EX-1 and just never could get it to where I liked it compared to Panasonic cameras. Color science in cameras seems to be converging to a central point with better technology and the addition of more color controls as standard even on lower end models. So I will have an open mind about this camera regarding color. But I am still waiting for the DVX200 as a choice.

Regarding dynamic range, how much better is it? Does anybody know? Lets hope the DR spec heats up since megapixels have reached a high level. I am tired of the 9.7 stops with my 5DMKIII, still or video but will need a decent step up to get me off the couch so to speak.
 
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