F3: A tough one... Amira or F3/FS7

V

VinceinLA

Carbonite Member
This is a tough one for me.

For you other experienced guys out there- What if you were going to start shooting a doc, with fairly controlled filming situations, and you could choose from an Amira "basic", which means using one of the three (adjustable) 709 looks it has built in, or an F3/S-log or FS7.

I have extensively used an F3 and FS7 and each has its issues that we dont need to go into and I dont need lessons on them, but I'm more wondering about being able to shoot log, which I have become (for good or bad) used to lately, or settling into a high-end Arri sensor and bulletproof camera with a real EVF and shoulder system, but with its baked in LUT to get used to. Ah, and it spits out 422 Prores files natively.

Sorry if this is a ramble but it might help get my head into the right gear.
 
VinceinLA said:
This is a tough one for me.

For you other experienced guys out there- What if you were going to start shooting a doc, with fairly controlled filming situations, and you could choose from an Amira "basic", which means using one of the three (adjustable) 709 looks it has built in, or an F3/S-log or FS7.

I have extensively used an F3 and FS7 and each has its issues that we dont need to go into and I dont need lessons on them, but I'm more wondering about being able to shoot log, which I have become (for good or bad) used to lately, or settling into a high-end Arri sensor and bulletproof camera with a real EVF and shoulder system, but with its baked in LUT to get used to. Ah, and it spits out 422 Prores files natively.

Sorry if this is a ramble but it might help get my head into the right gear.
Click to expand...

The Amira is obviously a lot more cash.
If you can justify the difference it is an excellent choice.
However, for my work (wedding videography) it is way too heavy.
My second shooter (who is a bit of a gym junkie) was exhausted by the reception and we were tag team using the Amira.
 
From the owner/users perspective the FS7 is hard to beat. All three cameras gives great IQ but the FS7 is small and easy to haul all over the world.
 
If you're considering the outlay for an Amira, why not consider splitting the cost diff and going for an F55. It's an extremely capable camera, much more so than an FS7, it has real a PL mount, and, it will record in a non-rolling shutter, the Sony SR codec, which is pretty hard to beat. As an added bonus, you get a REC2020 record capability, a much larger color space than REC709, all in an Amira form factor.
 
Well I'm just not a big fan of the FS7 after using it on a couple of multi-week shoots, and it really isn't much smaller than the Amira after you put a usable shoulder/plate on it, etc., not to mention the ridiculous, toy-like, plastic and HUGE EVF, plus you are still dealing with XAVC which few (clients/producers/editors) wants to hear about. The F3 going to an Odyssey in S-log honestly looks just about as good, of course its more bulky.

The real issues with both (FS7/F55) is that the images just have that Sony look no matter how you cut it or how many LUT's you toss around. The Amira might be justified IN THIS CASE due to the film-like look coming from it, out of the box, which is still superior to anything you can get from either Sony. I do wish it was lighter though... and cheaper.

I dont know, it's a tough call when you are doing a specific project that needs a nicer, more film-like quality to it. I'd go for an F55 in a second otherwise.
 
I think the big advantage of the FS7 is the great internal codec, the long running batteries and that it's a compact camera, even with the EVF mounted. It's way better to use than the F3 and lighter/smaller than the Amira if you need to be mobile and move a lot. I've shot all from reality to commercials with my FS7 and it's by far the best I've used. It's not perfect but it gets the job done.
 
And that is where I differ from the majority of film/camera guys I know; I often get involved in projects where "It's not perfect but it gets the job done" isn't close to being good enough.

Image "perfection" = Amira
Usability (and weight) = F55
Price vs. what you get = FS7

I think it's time to lift some weights.
 
VinceinLA said:
The real issues with both (FS7/F55) is that the images just have that Sony look no matter how you cut it or how many LUT's you toss around. The Amira might be justified IN THIS CASE due to the film-like look coming from it, out of the box, which is still superior to anything you can get from either Sony. I do wish it was lighter though... and cheaper.
Click to expand...

Not sure whether you realize or not that the F55 sensor is in a different class than the F5/FS7 sensor. Perhaps this does not affect your dislike of the "Sony look", just thought I'd point out that the F55 sensor has a larger color space than the F5, as well as having the non-rolling shutter feature.
 
VinceinLA said:
And that is where I differ from the majority of film/camera guys I know; I often get involved in projects where "It's not perfect but it gets the job done" isn't close to being good enough.

Image "perfection" = Amira
Usability (and weight) = F55
Price vs. what you get = FS7

I think it's time to lift some weights.
Click to expand...
So maybe wait for C300 mark II?
 
Osslund said:
I think the big advantage of the FS7 is the great internal codec, the long running batteries and that it's a compact camera, even with the EVF mounted. It's way better to use than the F3 and lighter/smaller than the Amira if you need to be mobile and move a lot. I've shot all from reality to commercials with my FS7 and it's by far the best I've used. It's not perfect but it gets the job done.
Click to expand...
i could not agree more...i would add that no it is not perfect but no camera is....it gets the job done in a way that it gets out of your way and there really should not be much of an excuse to not get the result....
@VinceinLA: but it sounds like you already have your mind up already...
 
I'd go the Amira, hands down. It's just easier to work with than either of those two Sonys operation-wise. And its Rec709 is the nicest Rec709 out there, so I wouldn't worry about image quality with it.
 
get the sony f35 - I use it for doc work all the time - pretty similar image than the amira and cheaper .
 
Having had F3, F55...

Amira.

Even with the limitations of the base model.

The only thing the other two have on the Amira is price and weight. Everything else is far superior on Amira. Which of course you'd expect for the $.

Remember, you can rent upgrade licenses on the Amira to get HQ/200fps and then 444 beyond that. and the 128 cards are now down to $500
 
eddavid said:
get the sony f35 - I use it for doc work all the time - pretty similar image than the amira and cheaper .
Click to expand...

I do think the F35 can produce the most film-like images out there but I worry about it being practical on a doc shoot, even a mostly controlled one like this project. Mainly the weight, lack of ND's, power draw, evf needs (is the stock one any good?) and mainly iso limits. It's tough to find one to test out, even in LA. I like to find ways to not light interviews and have done it over and over again after a ton of tweaking the technique but I'm often pushing the other Sony's 800 asa limit. What is the realistic rating of the F35? 500?

Also, Nate, how have you found the weight and size of the Amira works for you compared to the F55/F3 on shoots where you are going from tripod to shoulder to car and back again often? I am very attracted to a real, one-piece system like that where one battery powers everything and its built like a tank but that weight worries me after going solo for a whole day with no AC or even PA around. My sound guy wont help!

I think I am going to have an A7s for a b-cam/jib/interior car mount camera to make jumping around easy when needed. I
have found that I often need to grab a road-side shot and even using the F3 was too much last time, plus when you consider the tripod needs. A monopod and little camera are great for that kind of thing.
 
I would not go near an F3 - it is beasted by the FS7 - mainly the compact form.

To properly kit the FS7 you need to consider you will probably need an EVF and/or a monitor that supports luts and some other stuff, I guess add $4k to the budget for that, minimum.

Lenses.. Id take an FS7 with a CN17-105 over an ameria with a Canon 24-105

Id also probably shoot better with one FS7 with an 18mm and another FS7 with a 35-135 and an assistant to carry the one I was not using.

Id also work better with a grown up assistant than with a college kid.. especially if that assistant was an excellent operator who I could trust to swing an 85 at 2.

Shooting a good doc is so so much more than choosing a block of metal with an image sensor in it.

I would line up all the other ducks way before getting an Amera.

Dont get me wrong - ive picked an Amera up at a show (major error) and nearly wrote a cheque on the spot as the thing is so damned sexy.

The actual result of shouldering the Amera was to rebalance my rig and lose the FS7 viewfinder in exchange for a device that supports luts.

S
 
morgan_moore said:
I would not go near an F3 - it is beasted by the FS7 - mainly the compact form.

To properly kit the FS7 you need to consider you will probably need an EVF and/or a monitor that supports luts and some other stuff, I guess add $4k to the budget for that, minimum.

Lenses.. Id take an FS7 with a CN17-105 over an ameria with a Canon 24-105

Id also probably shoot better with one FS7 with an 18mm and another FS7 with a 35-135 and an assistant to carry the one I was not using.

Id also work better with a grown up assistant than with a college kid.. especially if that assistant was an excellent operator who I could trust to swing an 85 at 2.

Shooting a good doc is so so much more than choosing a block of metal with an image sensor in it.

I would line up all the other ducks way before getting an Amera.

Dont get me wrong - ive picked an Amera up at a show (major error) and nearly wrote a cheque on the spot as the thing is so damned sexy.

The actual result of shouldering the Amera was to rebalance my rig and lose the FS7 viewfinder in exchange for a device that supports luts.

S
Click to expand...

I think Sam is right. Go for two FS7s and a second operator.
 
First of all I would scrap F3/F5/F55 - they're not weatherproofed (while FS7 and Amira is). While of course you can use bags etc. but for doco you want to move fast and have less things on your head.
 
My opinion remains the same. It comes down to what your client base is and for me the FS7 has been a great tool which is quickly paying for itself. If I only shot features and docs, an Amira would probably be my choice, but for the corporate, broadcast, doc and web work I shoot, my clients request either an XDCAM (Sony PMW-500), C300, F5 or FS7. I have also been able to easily match any of the cameras when a locked down wide shot is needed using the same scene files and a mutual white balance. The Gratical EVF I recently purchased for the FS7 works really well when shooting S-log2 or 3 since the pre-loaded LUTS it comes with do a decent job. If I'm shooting inside in S-Log, I actually use the stock VF without the loupe clipped on to keep an eye on the WFM and zebras (set to 60). As far as codecs, I'm finding that my clients are also requesting XAVC much more recently even though both the FS7 or F5 can record ProRes as well. Just my 2 cents.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top