A little mic help please :)

svf1972

svf1972

Active member
I'm in the market for a mic and top of my list is the Audio-Technica AT4073A for$549.00.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...ls&Q=&sku=68317&is=REG&addedTroughType=search
I'm a bit of a knucklehead when it comes to sound so I have a couple of questions about it. 1) When I buy this mic will it plug directly into the XLR jack on the camera? (or do I need to plug it into a mixer or anything like that to get the maximum quality of the mic)
2) Any other accessories I should think about buying for it? (besides the obvious boom and windgaurd, although suggestions on those will also be appreciated.

Think that's about it, Thanks in advance...Happy filming:)
 
OK, first of all call Vall at Location Sound and get the AT4073a for $500. You will also want to get a good shockmount, the KSSM with softbands will work, otherwise the gitzo isn't bad and half the price. You will also want a Rycote softie for wind protection. For poles, it depends on your price range, a 12' aluminum gitzo will run you about $130 or you can go carbon fiber all the way up to $600. You can run the mic directly into the camera with an M-F XLR cable, but a mixer will give you more flexibility. Mixers can be studio or portable, and run in price from $50-$2000 depending on features. I would recommend if you are using it on a boom contact MattinSTL and getting him to custom build you an XLR cable. It will be half the price and twice the quality of other cables you can buy, but there is nothing worse that using a good mic with a shitty cable (trust me, I do it, and it's bad).

Hope this answers your questions.
 
svf1972 said:
1) When I buy this mic will it plug directly into the XLR jack on the camera? (or do I need to plug it into a mixer or anything like that to get the maximum quality of the mic)
Click to expand...

Hey.
Well since this first question is a two part question, I'll answer it in two parts:
a) yes, you can plug it into the XLR input of the cam with an XLR cable directly. All you need to do is have the cam supply a phantom power (with the DVX cam there's a switch for that.
b) Since the mic preamp isn't the greatest in cameras, technically you would get "the maximum quality of the mic" by going through a better, separate mic preamp/mixer and going line-in into the cam (there's another switch on the DVX for that too).

Also to consider: GET QUALITY cables!

As far as the softie/wind protection is concerned, the accessories listed on the B&H page give you basically two options, one is a cheaper simple softie, the other a complete windshield kit. The kit is better, but more expensive.

Like with everything on these boards/forums, you might want to first explain what it is you want to use the mic for; that way someone here might suggest a completely different mic...or not.
 
Thanks a bunch guys, I really appreciate your help...The reason for not explaining what I want to use the mic for is it will be used for EVERYTHING :) 2 shorts are on the way and some scenes are outdoors, some indoors, some close, some far etc. But all I really do is films and like the dialogue and action sounds to be as clear (and closely duplicated) as possible. Figured this was the best all around mic for the money. I have access to a sound studio, so when I screw up I can just record voiceovers and foleys. Hopefully this mic will lessen them cuz my current film had to be almost completely redone in there.
 
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svf1972 said:
Thanks a bunch guys, I really appreciate your help...The reason for not explaining what I want to use the mic for is it will be used for EVERYTHING :) 2 shorts are on the way and some scenes are outdoors, some indoors, some close, some far etc. Figured this was the best all around mic for the money. I have access to a sound studio, so when I screw up I can just record voiceovers and foleys. Hopefully this mic will lessen them cuz my current film had to be almost completely redone in there.
Click to expand...

Well, see, if I'd have to choose only ONE mic, I might go with the Oktava MK-012 with a HYPERCARDIOID and a CARDIOID capsule, with a good shockmount and a BABY BALL GAG with a windsock. With the money saved, I'd get a LAV mic, either wireless or wired. Oops, then I wouldn't have just the one mic anymore, but I guess I'd still have spent the same amount.

It's a budget question therefore.
 
vidled said:
if I'd have to choose only ONE mic, I might go with the Oktava MK-012 with a HYPERCARDIOID and a CARDIOID capsule
Click to expand...

As said before, I am a knucklehead when it comes to sound. Frequency and all that jazz are greek to me, I just know what sounds good after the fact. I have LAV mics so they're not necessary BUT if I'm going to get comperable sound recording from the Oktiva as opposed to the AT4073 then why not save a few bucks and spend them on something else. Do you think the Oktiva with the dual capsules will give me more versatility? And will the sound be as crisp?
 
I'm actually going to echo the above sentiment. If you are going to be shooting indoors at all then a shotgun is not the right microphone for you. Do some searching around the site, I have said it before, and I will say it again, you must not use a shotgun with interiors that are not studio sized or massive. There is too much reflection. Go to www.sound-room.com and order the Oktava. I would recommend just the hyper cap to start with and that should get you pretty well set up to get going. Search around, kits have been suggested, but for your needs here is what I'm going to suggest:

1. Oktava MK012 w/ Hypercardiod Cap from www.sound-room.com for $179
2. 1 BBG from www.evsonline.com for $99
3. 1 12' aluminum boom pole from www.evsonline.com for $129
4. 1 KSSM shockmount with softbands from location sound for $100
5. 1 20' M-F XLR cable from MattinSTL for $50-$75 (I don't know what he charges)

That will get you started on your way to getting great sound and you will be very happy with that kit.

EDIT:

To add, sound is actually simple when it comes from a kit standpoint. Any idiot can go out and buy the gear they need to get good quality sound, it's really not hard and doesn't take much to be able to pull it off, just a credit card. From the point when you have the kit then it comes down to art of booming, moving the mic, controlling and riding levels, and most importantly, knowing how to insulate the environment. Since you sound like you just want 'decent' sound and want to put someone you know on the boom then right off the back go ahead and invest in the above kit, and add a set of Sony 7406 headphones and you'll be golden like a shower. The goal here is to get the best sound for the least amount of money. This kit will do it for you.

A shotgun, especially something like the 4073a is only going to work best with exteriors and then with proper wind protection. The number one piece of advice I offer to people is that if you don't need sound stuff don't invest in it. Hire someone or rent. This weekend I shot a complete commercial and all the sound was voice over stuff that they delivered to me. If you're doing primarily short films you will be able to get by with the above kit, but if you're doing anything higher end then you will need a sound person, and they will come with their own kit. Best of luck to you on this venture, but do some searching through the forums. There is an audio tutorial thread where I make a case for hiring someone rather than trying to do it yourself. Furthermore, the most stated comment is that hypers=indoors shotguns=outdoors lavs=anytime you can get away with it. Trust me, this is the kit for you, plus half the people who look at your kit wont know the difference between a shotgun and a hyper.

Hell, consider yourself an audio expert by knowing the difference between mics for interiors and exteriors.

Finally, if you're committed to getting one mic that will work for interiors and exteriors go read my thread: One Mic To Rule Them All. It is about the AKG Blueline SE300B, CK93, & CK98. It is a modular mic that will go ahead and convert from a shotgun to a hyper cardiod. That is the only way you are going to get a single mic to do everything. I still like that mic, although I sold it.

If you need a shotgun for exteriors (I use my Oktava all the time outside because it is one fine sounding mic), but if you're determined to buy a shotgun I have an AT815 for sale in the marketplace right now.

-Jeremy
 
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Jeremy,
I want to thank you for your response, very kind of you to put up such a detailed reply for my questions. I will read your thread as well as do a little more research, but I think you hit it right on the head. Still waiting on tax dollars to come in so I'm in no rush. Wish you all the best. -Steve
 
Yankee...when it comes to audio, I really appreciate the no-nonsense approach to advice that both you and MattinSTL seem to represent. And by the way, you two guys are tireless. I've seen you dole out advice and answer the same questions over and over and over without losing your cool.

And, I compliment you, not to prevent you from losing your cool (that is if the following question has been asked and answered a million times before) but you guys are a ton of help!

So finally, after doing a lot of research, I JUST got off the phone not more than 10 minutes ago with The Sound Room. I just purchased a Bella Negro. I am very excited about checking this mic out.

I couldn't resist. The price is right. And, I know I will need it, eventually. Thing is, I am planning a shoot for this summer. So, I am trying to get EVERYTHING I need slowly. Cameras? check. Batteries? check. Crane? check. Good shotgun? check. But, I am a ways to go from completing my complete set. And, no, I am not one to 'rent' stuff. I just cant see doing that. I would rent a 100,000 dollar camera. I would not rent a 1,000 dollar rig of any sort unless it was dirt cheap. I'd rather just have it at my disposal. I can play with it, work with it, get good with it, then use it. And, if I don't like it, sell it. Thats my take.

Okay, I'm rambling...I just bought the Oktava Mk012, with the hyper. I am planning on doing more interior stuff than exteriors, so I am happy about this purchase. However, I was wondering a few things:

Shock mount? I've read about the one at The Sound Room, and the KSSM. How important is this piece of gear? If I boom the mic? What if the mic is locked off with a c-stand and arm?

Also for interiors, might I want to consider some wireless mics instead of a boom pole and Oktava in certain situations? And, if a wireless did in fact excel, do I have to worry about the sound quality displaying varying levels if I switch from wireless to boom to wireless to boom, etc.??

Thanks for your help. Anything you can add to my questions will be appreciated.

Rick
PS svf1972...sorry about the hijack...
 
I still believe in renting as the most viable option. Even with microphones locally I can rent a Schoeps for $50. That will sound better than my 416 any day of the week. OK, enough on that topic. To your questions.

I only got the KSSM a couple of months ago after using a Gitzo and a AT mount for a while. Matt talked me into it, and it is the best purchase you could ever make for your rig. Let me repeat myself, a shockmount is the best purchase you can make. The Oktava is very suceptable to handling noise, and must be protected from that. if you are planning on booming with the mic then you need to go ahead and have a good shockmount. I know it seems stupid to spend $100 on a shockmount, but it is the only purchase you will never second guess after you use it. I have two mic stands, one standard for voice over stuff and then I have a boom one that I use when I can hide it outside the frame. It works well enough, but I like my Gitzo poles. A lot of people here use more expensive poles, but I have one aluminum and one carbon fiber and have had no problems. These have worked well for me. I would suggest getting a real pole though, not a painters pole because that will transmit a lot of sound.

Wireless. I personally just got into wireless on a serious side after being on the fence for a while. I purchased the G2 from Sennheiser mostly for steadicam work (can't have wires running in). I still believe that my wire will sound better than anyone elses wireless, so unless I need to go wireless, I don't. From the tests I have done with an Oktava, 416, 4073a, and G2 (with standard lav) I havne't had too many problems making it sound similar. Just takes a little time in post, but anytime you are going to match sound you will need to do that.

I don't know if this answers your questions, but I am not a professional, so hopefully Oleg or Ty will chime in to contribute. I just like sound and think things should always sound better than they look. You'll love that Oktava, but trust me, buy the KSSM. I tried the sound-room's shockmount and didn't like it. Their high wind foam isn't bad, I used one until I got a BBG. Get a BBG for that Oktava though, you will NEED to have an Oktava with proper wind and shock protection, but don't worry about it, you got a $600 mic for $170. You can afford to drop $200 to make it perform like a $600 mic
 
Thanks for your quick reply. Actually, its kind of fun buying things as I can afford them because I am in no rush to buy EVERYthing, but I am on a bit of a schedule to get things in as I get a little extra cash. (I am dreading the point when I start to do research on a light kit...I suck at lights...alas...but I digress).

So, thanks for your input. Now I am really glad I didn't spring for the shock mount from The Sound Room. I have a buddy, who is a bit of a sound geek. However, he is great in post. He has never been a mic junky. But, he has an excellent ear to make things sound very pro. So, I am anxious to get this mic to him to do some tests.

And wind protection for an indoor mic? That is odd to me, but I will take your word for it.

Thanks!
 
Wind protection for the Oktava indoors is a must. What the sound-room sells for $50 will get you by for a little while but once you get into sweeping booms or anything like that you're dead.

I'm not pluggin my sci fi (read the posts and you will know my opinion regarding it), but in my sci fi I used only the Oktava. If you go to the chamber scene I recorded all the chamber stuff with no wind protection and everything else with. If you listen closely you can hear the extra sound coming through. You have to pay attention, but Matt recommended the Oktava to me and I got rid of a AKG Blueline because I love this little mic so much. It is the best microphone for the money and sounds great. It needs wind protection and shock protection at all times though. It's a trade off.

Like I said, that $50 wind protection from the sound room will get you by for a while but you'll desire something better once you get into following people with the mic.
 
what kind of wind protection do you have for it? if you have something, and it works great and it doesnt break the bank, I will take your word for it, and put it on my list. I already have the KSSM mount on my list.

Oh and do you have a link for your sci fi? Id love to check it out!
 
On my sci fi I used the BBG, but until a month ago I used the wind protection that sound-room sells.

The BBG brings a lot of things out better. Great microphone.
 
TheYankee said:
On my sci fi I used the BBG, but until a month ago I used the wind protection that sound-room sells.

The BBG brings a lot of things out better. Great microphone.
Click to expand...

Do you have a link to your flick? I'd like to check it out.
 
Yankee (and MattinSTL)-

Thank you guys for your Oktava endorsement. Everything you said about it is true. I ordered it on Thursday and received it yesterday. It is an outstanding sounding mic.

I understand that sometimes the particular sound of a mic appeal to some but not to others, but this mic hit it right on the head for me. It is rich, not too bright, and all around fantastic.

I tested this mic at a buddies house who is a bit of a audio geek. We didn't do the test in a controlled study, because we tested each mic, on its own, with the same levels and same distance from the mic. Its not as ideal as a simultaneous record, but, for us, did the trick. If it was a controlled study, I would post the results, but since it wasn't and since my buddy played slightly different chords on his accoustic guitar, I will just promote this mic verbally.

For starters, we pitted this mic up against, His Rode Nt1, my AT 4073a, and a Shure mic (not sure of the model number) that is strictly built for vocals.

This Oktava was a solid performer. To my ear, it sounded the best with the guitar. If you are a player, this is THE mic to use. It really handled the entire range of the guitar...great boom when it needed it, not to bright, no background noise. It was absolutely fantastic. After we played back the results, my buddy looked at me and said, "wow...this sounds amazing. I am going to have to pick one of these up!"

As expected, the AT 4073a sounded amazing as well. However, since it is a shotgun mic, I could hear things that I didn't want to hear. But, as an aside (since this is an informal Oktava review) I am glad this forum convinced me to get the AT as well.

The Rode performed pretty well and in many ways sounds a lot like the AT. Just not nearly as hot. The Shure...was doomed.

As for vocals...I read the first sentence of an article from a NEWSWEEK magazine, again, that Octava just shined!

So, thanks for tipping me in that direction. It really is worth every single penny.

Rick
 
Oktava mic on cam mount

Oktava mic on cam mount

How would the Oktava mic perform for indoor interviews mounted directly on the DVX? I can't go lav because I am changing interviewees too rapidly.
Thanks for any advice.
 
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