A decent mixer at a reasonable price

[Alex H.]

BTW, I agree that the MixPre is a joke...

That really is an unfair assessment. The MixPre is a fantastic little piece of machinery... for its intended purpose. I think Oleg's point, while still a bit skewed, was along more agreeable lines in that it is not suited for situations that call for more inputs and more control over signal routing. I would still, at that point, not call the MixPre a "joke."

This would be like calling the Yamaha 01v96 a joke from the standpoint of a concert engineer who uses the Yamaha LS9. No, you aren't going to mix a full-scale, touring concert on an 01v96. It is not a mixer intended for that venue. Yet, there are engineers out there who use it daily on carts for film and TV, and there are small project studios who rely on them. For those sitautions, the 01v96 is right at home and is a mighty fine mixer.

Bottom line: the MixPre is well-built and offers good pre-amps with limited in, out, and routing. It's a great auxiliary mixer in more complex setups, and is also right at home for the lone gunman who needs a reliable 2-in, 2-out device.

And the FP-33 is still out there. It was the field standard for years, and has not been completely dropped from routine use. I know quite a few folks out there who still use theirs. I even still have mine that I bought in 1997. It still does the job. For all the advantages that the 302 has over it, I still prefer the rotating pan control on the FP-33 to the hard L-C-R switching on the 302. To get that feature on an SD mixer, you have to go to the 442.

 

[Noiz2]

I totally disagree with the MixPre "joke" assessment and we have gone down this road before. Olegs complaint is that it isn't a "mixer" and he is right it isn't. That is why it's called the MixPre... It's a pair of preamps with some routing control and a bunch of very useful functions in a great package for a great price. When the MixPre hit the market you couldn't touch a portable preamp under $1,200, the street price on the MixPre is around $650. It is used by professionals daily for film work. What it's not good for is mixing a bunch of inputs. But with only two inputs how much panning are you really going to do? The FP33 is much comparable to the 302. The FP33's earlier versions cant remember the # was/ is pretty noisy. But it was going to analog tape at the time so... The FP33 is probably pretty quiet, it's supposed to be but I don't have first hand knowledge. The MixPre is designed basically as a front end to a recorder. It does a great job at that. As a "mixer" it might be a joke, but that's like calling a car a joke because it's a lousy airplane. The MixPre was never designed to be a "mixer" and anyone who has issues with the mixing ability of it has basically missed the whole point. And I would like them to point out a good two channel mixer as a comparison. But the OP needed ONE channel, so by definition he did not need a mixer.
If you want to compare the MixPre, compare it with something more equivalent like say a Went X3 for $1,185 or Lunatec V3 at $1,695 etc.

Personally it would be a close call. The FP33 is a very good buy at $600. But it is a bit old. It has more flexible inputs and mixing (T power, Mic/line, pans) but it uses 9V batteries (more expensive and a little bit harder to find). The MixPre goes for $665 new at B&H and a bunch of other places. It is possibly quieter, has more flexible low roll off, meters that are easier to read in dim light is smaller and runs off of two AA batteries.

The rest of the features seem pretty similar, both have tone and a slate mic good limiters and a solid track record. You would not go wrong with either.

 

[oleg]

- the wendt 2 was there before - Robert discontinued the model as there where not to much takers and came with 3 channel .
- 33 is the improved version of 32 a which looks abit similar and replaced the 32 ( i still have one which works as tc da distributor ) had bad reputation with bad potentiometers and finally was discontinued after 3-4 years .
battery life - i dont know people who work with internals but if you wont , i power 9v are rechargeables and will run the shure for long period .

.
and i like your line as it implement about every one on that board
"but I don't have first hand knowledge"
thats why i did about 5000 posts in the last 5 years ( under all my names ) that had about 4000 relevant to the line above .
dont really care if the guy would buy or not but at least my knowledge comes from someone who owns or owned or had opportunity to have in his hands almost every junk that was produced in the last 25 years .

 

[USLatin]

I never meant to say that the MixPre is bad... just that it is a bit too limited... personally I believe that mixers should be 3 channels or more... but as far as 2 channels go I can hardly believe it could be made better beyond giving you more control over the channels... I L-O-V-E my baby... but if you can't lav a two shot and boom it it just doesn't feel like it is enough of a mixer... more of a proper pre-amp bypass for recording into a camera's 2 channels, a talking head mixer and a boom operator's monitoring and line level setting box... a marvelous at all of those... mixers in my mind are three channels at a minimum and three is limited too.... of course I am nobody to set nomenclature for the pro audio world

C2V, you are right... "joke" is by far an unfair and undeserved word for such a phenomenal piece of equipment... sometimes Oleg brings out the Oleg in me :thumbsup:

For all the advantages that the 302 has over it, I still prefer the rotating pan control on the FP-33 to the hard L-C-R switching on the 302.

This is a big deal... not a deal breaker but a powerful feature overlooked on the 302 possibly cause the money goes into the preamps. And I guess, as Noiz brings it up, this is what really would make a mixer a "mixer".


Come to think about it perhaps the FP is a better way to get started... more flexibility gives you more room to practice... then when you can get a 442 you have played with more of the things it will be able to do with it. It clearly must be clean enough if it isn't an earlier version. I went with the MixPre cause this wonderful bunch you got here posting for you told me there was nothing that could beat the preamps in it for anywhere close to its price, and I want the best dam sound I can get for my single line for my boom, plus being able to pre-amp an other mic if I have an other that I can patch into my only other channel in my camera does come in handy from time to time. Though I might have gone with the MM-1 had I know it existed and saved the difference for something bigger and better...

like my wet dreams the 744t or 788t :love4:

 

[Noiz2]

and i like your line as it implement about every one on that board
"but I don't have first hand knowledge"
thats why i did about 5000 posts in the last 5 years ( under all my names ) that had about 4000 relevant to the line above .
dont really care if the guy would buy or not but at least my knowledge comes from someone who owns or owned or had opportunity to have in his hands almost every junk that was produced in the last 25 years .

I'm sure this is some kind of insult but it's a little hard to decipher. I have about 35 years in audio, 12 or so in film on major and minor features. I HAVE used the 32 and didn't like it but I did not want to put that opinion out there because it's not exactly what your selling and who knows maybe there is a big improvement? But Sure chose to re-brand the MixPre instead of making a new preamp of their own so ... If I had trashed the 33 with no experience with it your criticism would be justified. I didn't even though I did have experience with it's sibling and I put it out that I didn't have specific hands on experience with the 33. If I remember correctly from the last time you went on the MixPre bashing rant you have virtually no hands on experience with the MixPre, but I didn't hear any disclaimers in your post.

FYI Shure does not list rechargables as an option. I suspect that would be because 9V rechargables are only 7.2V and that is about the voltage that 9V devices would be reporting a low battery. So I suspect that your wrong on that. And I note that you were advocating something that you just admitted you had no hands on experience with. 9V alkaline batteries though are supposed to get 9hrs (acording to Shure).

Now I know you like to push peoples buttons but you are not the only experienced sound person on this board and you may not even be the most experienced sound person on this board. Of those 5000 posts of yours about 3/4 were also just snipes at folks, the 1/4 were very informative.

 

[USLatin]

Now I know you like to push peoples buttons

Nooo... you must be mistaking him. :beer:

(I still <3 you Oleg)

 

[oleg]

after 35 years in that business you must know that 9v alkaline battery go down by voltage and finish its life when it 6 v under load , That's why all the equipment which use these or 1,5 v or any other have dc to dc converters and regulators , what in simple words for you, only the minimum voltage to power the circuit is what matter .
also its good you to know after 35 years that ni mh do not change drastically it voltage under heavy load ,in other words the battery which was 8,4 when it was fully charged will finish it life as 7v , still more then the alkaline . so what really matter is the capacity which 400 ma average in alkaline and about 250 in nimh .
but it good you to you to know after 35 years in that business that i power us batteries are lithium ion rechargeable which are 11.1 v with regulation to 9v and they have 500ma of capacity which make them much better choice and much cheaper for heavy load usage , not to mention cold weather where \are they outperform alkaline for 200 % of time running .

that about batteries for a wile .

about my experience with sd mix pre - i have quit allot of experience with to make decision i don't like it , not for it sonic characteristics but as limiting device for normal work , at least for people who work eng films and not people like you who mostly take it to feed 2 channel of ambiance or make one mic interview .
power hungry , not enough juce to power hungry mics( chock on schoeps ans few others ) , no ability individually switched off ph what in some cases making the unit loose power for nothing when connected to wireless receivers .
motor boating with high drain microphones (like all SD PREAMPS)
no ms headphone matrix when you work with ms mics . no comfortable pots to work .( they didnt learn anything from wendt and sqn how good it can be )
no mic output level for wireless connection .
no line input if you need go from console or line feed
so yes very limiting device .


so here something small to add to 1000 posts you you did find interesting , by the way if you was reading my posts carefully you wasn't write this as i already said it in dozens of other posts .

i hope that in your 36 year of experience you will find time to in plant humor gin or at least date with a Jew - may help , probably not .

by the way - John tatooles was Shure engineer as i know and his first customer after he left and opened the sound devices was Shure , later i suppose they didn't find someone good as him and he found that its better to sell it under SD name allone .
best , next time do your homwork

 

[oleg]

Nooo... you must be mistaking him. :beer:

(I still <3 you Oleg)

yes i prefer to hit with hummer
shi* ,that one of the usless posts i do from time to time

 

[USLatin]

lithium ion rechargeable which are 11.1 v with regulation to 9v and they have 500ma of capacity which make them much better choice and much cheaper for heavy load usage , not to mention cold weather where \are they outperform alkaline for 200 % of time running .

Is there lithium ion AAs that I could use with my MixPre? I plan to use it in SUPER c-c-cold weather and I am very concerned with battery life, not that I don't mind changing batteries once daily even go through three sets daily if need be, but it would be great if I could get a full day out of each set and not have to worry about my audio getting ruined half way through a take.... plus one less thing to remember... safety is all I am concerned with... what would be best way to power my MixPre in extreme cold weather when it needs to providing phantom to an MK-012a or AT4073a?

 

[oleg]

no. li-ion cell is 3.7 v .

any sony or panasonic 7.4 battery will do it as the sd products run from 6-18 v external power .
find cheap charger , ruin it and make battery plate , connect dc power connector and you done .

 

[oleg]

if i remeber corectly maha sell spare plates for their chargers , buy one and make it battery holder

 

[oleg]

here it comes

 

[oleg]

Scott's last activity

Last Activity: Today 11:39 PM
Current Activity: Replying to Thread A decent mixer at a reasonable price
very long reply i may say , its 20 minutes later already

 

[oleg]

hmmmmm .......... 50 minutes , what take you so long?
another usless post

 

[Noiz2]

after 35 years in that business you must know that 9v alkaline battery go down by voltage and finish its life when it 6 v under load , That's why all the equipment which use these or 1,5 v or any other have dc to dc converters and regulators , what in simple words for you, only the minimum voltage to power the circuit is what matter .

Not quite. Alkaline's are considered out at 5.4V. And you are right the minimum needed to power the circuit is what counts. Most old school 9V wireless mics for instance (with your 35 years you must remember them) wont work at all on standard rechargeable 9V because they start out at 7.2V. And no many devices don't use DC to DC converters and none did a few years back. In most cases there isn't really the need. Everything but the phantom power is easily powered from the streight batt power and one can get the 48V (though some don't bother with going all the way to 48V since that is not the spec but just the most common #) with voltage multiplying circuits. And again, depending on the circuit, battery powered boxes don't often need voltage regulators. So the question is, as you said what is the minimum needed to power the box. Traditionally, as you know, 7.2 has not been high enough.

also its good you to know after 35 years that ni mh do not change drastically it voltage under heavy load ,in other words the battery which was 8,4 when it was fully charged will finish it life as 7v , still more then the alkaline . so what really matter is the capacity which 400 ma average in alkaline and about 250 in nimh .

Not sure where these numbers come from. First off the 8.4V is for the iPower 9V that you incorrectly say starts as 9V. virtually all other rechargeable 9V batteries start at 7.2 (there are some freak NiMH that start at a bit higher). The iPower (as stated in their spec sheet) start at 8.4 and end at 6.4. I'm guessing your talking mAH (since mA would be meaningless in this context). Alkaline 9V (under twice the load that iPower tested at) get about 300mAH. NiMH 9V are rated around 325 mAH.

BUT that is pretty misleading because as I think you were trying to say Alkaline batteries don't like big power draws and tend to discharge more linearly whereas NiMH batteries tend to stay close to the nominal voltage and then drop like rocks. So you get more usable life out of NiMH than an alkaline. Lithium batteries also act this way.

If your trying to say that NiMH and lithium ion are better choices than Alkaline I don't think you will get much of an argument.
But my "35 years" doesn't have much to do with that. NiMH and Lithium ion batteries didn't exist (at least to the public) for most of that time. ;~)

but it good you to you to know after 35 years in that business that i power us batteries are lithium ion rechargeable which are 11.1 v with regulation to 9v and they have 500ma of capacity which make them much better choice and much cheaper for heavy load usage , not to mention cold weather where \are they outperform alkaline for 200 % of time running .

Not according to iPowers web site. 8.4V to 6.5V. Lithium also has a problem with heat. A number of devices specifically forbid using lithium batteries because of the possibility of heat damage. Also you are limited in the number/ size of lithium bateries that are allowed when traveling by plane. Since lithium bateries didn't exist in the consumer market when the FP33 was made one should probably check to see if there are any problems. Also the iPower 9V's are shorter than a normal 9V so that could also be an issue. Since your suggesting this use I assume you have used the FP33 with iPower batteries and have checked that heat isn't an issue.

about my experience with sd mix pre - i have quit allot of experience with to make decision i don't like it , not for it sonic characteristics but as limiting device for normal work , at least for people who work eng films and not people like you who mostly take it to feed 2 channel of ambiance or make one mic interview .

Actually you have my experience a bit wrong. I do a LOT of FX recordings, also concerts and some run and gun ENG work. The MixPre has worked well for me in all of those situations. But I think you point is, and I agree, that the MixPre does what it does and if it fits your needs it is a good box. If you need a real mixer you won't be happy.

power hungry , not enough juce to power hungry mics( chock on schoeps ans few others ) , no ability individually switched off ph what in some cases making the unit loose power for nothing when connected to wireless receivers .
motor boating with high drain microphones (like all SD PREAMPS)
no ms headphone matrix when you work with ms mics . no comfortable pots to work .( they didnt learn anything from wendt and sqn how good it can be )
no mic output level for wireless connection .
no line input if you need go from console or line feed
so yes very limiting device .

I agree with some of the above. I have not found the MixPre power hungery. The "motorboating" thing is an issue IF you are trying to power a mic that needs 48V with the phantom power set to 12V. If you set the phantom switch to 48V it is not an issue.

MS is not an issue for me because I hate MS recordings, but that is more of a personal taste thing so IF you need M/S that is an issue.

I'm not sure what you mean by the pots and comfort, I don't find them uncomfortable but I would like to be able to make them harder to change and or lock them together. But that's because I do a lot of stereo recordings.

Don't know exactly why one would output a mixer to a wireless transmitter but it would have been nice to drop to mic level once or twice.

Line in would also be nice at times but with only two channels it doesn't really come up much. this would be an issue if it were more of a mixer but since it is fundamentally a mic preamp if you have line levels to go to your recorder it's pretty simple to go direct to the recorder. I have a hard time coming up with a situation where someone would want to mix a line level with the mic in, and if your not mixing those signals then going direct to the recorder really shouldn't be an issue.

I would not call it "limiting" any more than I would call a shotgun mic limiting because you shouldn't use it to record in side. It's a tool designed to do certain kinds of work. If you use it for what it was designed for then it's great. If you try to use it for something it's not designed for it's a problem. Try to put an SSL in a bag over your shoulder and do Run and Gun. You would find it also "very limiting" ;~)

so here something small to add to 1000 posts you you did find interesting , by the way if you was reading my posts carefully you wasn't write this as i already said it in dozens of other posts .

Well true but you were getting all devout on us with your 5000 posts to help the poor uneducated masses etc.

i hope that in your 36 year of experience you will find time to in plant humor gin or at least date with a Jew - may help , probably not .

WOW this must have been a long post I just gained a year! Or maybe that was just a year of wisdom from reading your post ;~)

by the way - John tatooles was Shure engineer as i know and his first customer after he left and opened the sound devices was Shure , later i suppose they didn't find someone good as him and he found that its better to sell it under SD name allone .
best , next time do your homwork

will there be a quiz?

 

[Noiz2]

hmmmmm .......... 50 minutes , what take you so long?
another usless post

LOL, I had to go do some actual work ;~) I didn't know you were so interested, I would have finished it later..

Cheers
SK

 

[Noiz2]

i hope that in your 36 year of experience you will find time to in plant humor gin or at least date with a Jew - may help , probably not .

Hey, my wife would object. But my neighbor is an expatriate Israeli and I go over whenever I have a new batch of beer bottled, maybe that counts?
;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~)

 

[Rippie]

Oleg, whats your point?
I stand 100% behind what i said.
The fp-33 was a standard for many years..
i used to use one daily years ago.
I stand behind my statement that i think in the year 2009 its a silly choice when buying a 3 channel mixer.
Is it bad? no. Would I spend a few extra hundred and get a 302? yes.

the fp-33 was designed by the same people who designed the mix pre and opened sound devices




the vu meters are vu meter and that how they work show you the average loudness , check the cooper and WENDT - 90% of what made for USA MARKET WHAS MADE VITH VU METERS - becouse people like you

beside that fp- equipped with pick + 17 db indication led and limiters led indication when they are opened
the position of limiter could be calibrated with internal potentiometer.
fast and slow reliese also
noIsy - not really, if you recording dialog and keeping the gain structure ( high input - low output)
the gain is direct exactly as on mix pre
it is not 302 but so is the price ,
about mix pre - its a joke for normal work , good for people like me who have tones of other quip ,not really for someone who may do a bit more then minimum .

 

[rafaeldelauz]

I agree with some of the above. I have not found the MixPre power hungery. The "motorboating" thing is an issue IF you are trying to power a mic that needs 48V with the phantom power set to 12V. If you set the phantom switch to 48V it is not an issue.

This is not exactly true. I own a Mixpre and is useless with Sanken shotgun if I use it with internal batteries, and of course I'm using the phantom power in 48v. tech guys in Sd told me that they can't deliver enough power out their batteries and microphones with sharp side rejection are more sensitive to suffer motorboating while being used with Sd mixers. it happens with the Sd302 too, but you can solve it with roll off. With the Mixpre is impossible, you have to power it externally.
This doesn't happens with my wendt or my fp33.
The mixpre is really power hungry, feeding just one shotgun, you don't pass lunch time without changing batteries, while the Wendt goes for more than two days. My FP33 goes for a whole day.

 

[Noiz2]

I agree with some of the above. I have not found the MixPre power hungery. The "motorboating" thing is an issue IF you are trying to power a mic that needs 48V with the phantom power set to 12V. If you set the phantom switch to 48V it is not an issue.

This is not exactly true. I own a Mixpre and is useless with Sanken shotgun if I use it with internal batteries, and of course I'm using the phantom power in 48v. tech guys in Sd told me that they can't deliver enough power out their batteries and microphones with sharp side rejection are more sensitive to suffer motorboating while being used with Sd mixers. it happens with the Sd302 too, but you can solve it with roll off. With the Mixpre is impossible, you have to power it externally.
This doesn't happens with my wendt or my fp33.
The mixpre is really power hungry, feeding just one shotgun, you don't pass lunch time without changing batteries, while the Wendt goes for more than two days. My FP33 goes for a whole day.

OK, I have not seen this but I haven't used it with that microphone. I do have a couple of mic's that will do the motor boating but they all work fine with 48V phantom or with the low cut in. I get 5 -8 hours running two phantom powered mic's with Alkaline batteries, a bit more with NiMH. My Black Audio devices preamp got about 5 hours on 4 9V's and a colleagues PPS1 gets about 8 hrs on 4 AA's so maybe the MixPre is not the least power hungry box out there but is FAR from the most. I always have to change batteries on my recorder before the MixPre so it has never been an issue. But I think to call something "power hungry" implies its getting much worse performance that the rest of the field. My experience is that it's getting better performance than the field. But YMMV. It should also be pointed out that both units you mention go for about twice the price of the MixPre. And the FP33 is running off of six times the voltage as the MixPre (2 9V) and the Wendt is running off of three times the power (6 AA's). So with your Wendt your going through 6 AA's in two days, I'm going through 6 to 8 AA's in the same time period. I don't think that is a very big difference. The FP33 is going through two 9V in a day as opposed to four AA's. I think that gives the MixPre the edge, certainly in cost if not convenience.

I should probably restate, since I'm starting to sound like a MixPre fanboy, that I don't think the MixPre is right for everyone. It is not the greatest thing since sliced bread. It is a very good preamp that has very low noise and a very good limiter and a few bells and whistles that some find useful. But it is fundamentally a preamp and that means it's job is to take a mic signal and boost it as cleanly as possible to a line level. It does that very well and it does that for about one half the price of the competing small channel count "mixers". IF you need a mixer it is not the best choice. It might get you by but it is not really a mixer and you will be constrained by it's limitations. I think it's ridiculous to complain about the lack of mixer functions on a box that isn't a mixer.