GH5 A Collection of Thoughts: GH5s and GH5

T

Tom Roper

Veteran
There are compelling reasons for both. I'm reminded of DC Comics when Superman was split into two, Superman Red and Superman Blue. Each possessed 1/2 of the full compliment of super powers but not the same 1/2. We can muse about combining the two into the one perfect camera but that's not what this is about.

The premise is the GH5 is better stabilized, the G5s has better sensitivity.

Available to both cameras are the same lenses. Which camera to use with each lens is the food for thought.

First Law of lenses for MFT:

There is only one focal length where you can obtain greater than f/2.8 lens speed with OIS in the MFT system; 42.5mm.

For the GH5s, EIS is only available to Panasonic lenses with OIS, meaning just the one focal length (42.5) maintains the 2 stop advantage of the sensor if remaining hand holdable. For other focal lengths, faster lenses are hand holdable with the GH5 IBIS effectively negating the speed advantage of the GH5s sensor with slower OIS lenses.

This has not helped poor Superman.
 
Tom Roper said:
There is only one focal length where you can obtain greater than f/2.8 lens speed with OIS in the MFT system; 42.5mm.
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That needs to change. And IBIS makes that change more difficult.

Refuse IBIS! Scream at your favorite lens makers for OIS in all their offerings.
 
The stop advantage is only an advantage for hand-held photographs, for hand-held video it does not matter, shaky footage remains shaky whatever the aperture. And for tripod recording you typically want stabilization off.

The great advantage of the GH5 over the GH5sis is the built-in gimbal, a level of stabilization that no OIS or electronic stabilization can even begin to match.

I would only consider the GH5s for a tripod only camera.
 
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If I had to choose between one or the other I'd go with the GH5s. Clean 6400- and useable 12,800 iso is too great to pass up.

Also allows me to shoot at higher apertures which makes auto focus on a gimbal more practical. And lets face it, IBIS is nice but it only replaces my gimbal or tripod some of the time.

That said I am going to own both cameras.
 
The GH5s does not only have sensitivity as it’s only advantage. That’s a pretty narrow view of the advantages it provides. The Dual Native ISO is worth the cost alone for a few significant reasons.

1. ISO 2500 has the same dynamic range as ISO 400 meaning it’s about the best indoor dynamic range camera under $20,000.
2. ISO 2500 means a f5.6 lens can be as clean as a f2.2 lens on the GH5. The necessity of having fast glass is much less important with the GH5s.
3. Cost overall. The GH5s may cost more but it can also achieve much of the same quality with slower zoom lenses vs expensive prim3s.
4. Ability to use the holy grail of video camera users of a single lens to do it all. A lens like the 14-140 is suddenly very usable indoors with the GH5s thanks to the ISO 2500. That means shoots like a lecture or seminar now make sense with a single camera.
5 same visual quality outdoors and indoors thanks to the dual native ISO.
6. Smaller, easier and more affordable light options thanks to the dual native ISO. Instead of requiring massive light output to shoot at f4 indoors the dual native ISO allows you to keep the same aperture across shooting environments. Less light overall can be used to light a shoot.
7. Slow motion can have a cleaner higher ISO level indoors to compensate for the shutter speed. Even if only using 60p for 4k slow motion that will yield better results indoors without a ton of light.
8. Optical quality. Lenses have a sweet spot around f4 and f5.6 where they are optimally at their best. Having a camera with a clean ISO 2500 means you can keep even your primes at f4 for a better optical look overall. Better contrast, less vignetting and a sharper picture.
9. Easier focus for moving subjects. Having a lens that can open up to f1.4 or f1.8 is awesome to suck in light but absolutely sucks for shooting a moving subject. One of the reasons why Hollywood shoots at f4 or f5.6 other than the optical quality is also to make the life easier for focus pullers. Especially if shooting with a longer focal length like 200mm. Shooting 200mm at f5.6 will always be easier than f2 or f2.8 and the ISO 2500 allows you to do that.
10. ISO 2500 to 6400 seem to be the sweet spot with m43 for indoor shooting without a light and still be able to use any lens in your kit including a slow zoom lens. The fact hat ISO 6400 still looks acceptably clean and maintains almost 100% color accuracy is extremely impressive and useful. The higher ISO modes are neat to win street cred but it’s the useful paid client ISO range that matters in the end.

Low light doesn’t just mean shoot in the dark but how well a camera can do with low to moderate light environment or gear.

IBIS is nice but honestly people have been shooting professionally without IBIS for decades and will continue to do so on dozens of other cameras without IBIS. The lack of IBIS does not in any way shape or form make a camera any less professional. It’s an inconvenience to some people but that’s about it. We can disagree on that but until the day comes when every professional and cinema camera has IBIS it is just an added bonus and not the norm. I have a dozen different ways of stabilizing my camera as I have done for decades. There is only so much I can do to shoot in the dark.
 
Here's a test from last weekend that makes me very happy... with HLG; one at low native and the other at high native... ignoring the key quality, which is simple and without refinement, which green screen foreground element was 320IS0 and which was 2500ISO?

(I suggest downloading for local playback on UHD monitor)

http://files.datausa.com/imageshoppe/outgoing/GH5s/HLG_Matte_320iso&2500iso.MOV

Having the option to shoot at 2500ISO for clean green screen work is a real boon and came as somewhat of a surprise, despite the press and hype of Dual Native. It means I can stop down a bit more, or pack in less lights.

For me, higher ISO is all about greater options under adequate lighting, not just about single candles in dark rooms.
 
Thomas Smet, completely agree on all points. Another good thing about the dual ISO is how well the color holds up at high ISO's.
 
All Panasonic needs is a third model with perfect AF and 16 stops - but no low-light or IBIS - and we'll officially go crazy.

[P.S. a7RII and a7SII people were doing the same thing a few years ago.]
 
NorBro said:
All Panasonic needs is a third model with perfect AF and 16 stops - but no low-light or IBIS - and we'll officially go crazy.

[P.S. a7SII and a7rII people were doing the same thing a few years ago.]
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No way 16 stops is happening anytime soon. That would beat out the EVA1 by 2 stops.

Autofocus should be delievered with the GH6 though, there is no reason they can't give us a phase/contrast combined system.

What were the A7Sii and RII doing years ago?
 
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People couldn't decide which one to choose...one was the stills king and had better AF in video, and of course the other one had the low-light and 1080/120p. The a7RII was also able to shoot 4K with APS-C lenses without any digital zooming trick. Maybe there were some other differences - I don't remember now - but I think most of the people who had a hard time choosing did stills AND video for a living.
 
Ohh I get your point now. Yeah the A7RII has the 36mp sensor or something and the SII has the 10mp.

I was actually debating between those two cameras recently until the GH5s came out lol.
 
You're going to laugh...I was actually thinking of picking up the GH5 or GH5S, but now going to get an a7RIII, lol.
 
NorBro said:
You're going to laugh...I was actually thinking of picking up the GH5 or GH5S, but now going to get an a7RIII, lol.
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Well its definitely the superior stills camera and will give you a bit more Dynamic range and of course video auto focus. I'm still saving for the GH5s
 
Thomas Smet said:
The GH5s does not only have sensitivity as it’s only advantage. That’s a pretty narrow view of the advantages it provides. The Dual Native ISO is worth the cost alone for a few significant reasons.
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The GH5 still shares the higher quality mode of the GH5s Dual Native ISO feature, so the GH5s only has an advantage when using it in higher ISO conditions, and it needs external support for any of the faster f/1.4 lenses that could be internally stabilized by IBIS on the GH5 because none of them (except 42.5mm) have OIS or EIS support on the GH5s. And if you're using the OIS lenses (except the 42.5mm) you're forfeiting back to the lens the two stops that you gained from the sensor. So while yes, we can be nostalgic over the fact that we didn't have or need stabilization in the past, we also didn't have v-bloggers nor YouTube. We should not dismiss outright the potential opportunities presented by having IBIS technology.

I also wasn't trying to give a narrow view of the advantages of Dual native ISO, it's just that almost all of those advantages are a consequence of superior sensitivity, thus I gave sensitivity as the main premise for the GH5s. I could have given a wider view of the IBIS advantages as well as stills resolution for the GH5, or ex tele conv.
 
I tried out the A7RIII and hated the ergonomics. I picked up the GH5 and it feels great in my hands.

My work trends towards video but have tried to learn and incorporate a more cinematic approach over the years. I have been waiting to make a purchase for a while now and have been agonizing over the choice between the GH5 and GH5s. In the end, I could not pass up the deal B&H had that ended last night. I went with a GH5 with Vlog and the XLR1 unit for $2095. Add a Viltrox EF adapter and a used 12-35 or 12-40 lens and I am not that far away from the body only price of the GH5s. So it came down to price for me, $700-$800 to be exact. I might consider the S version down the road but am happy right now and am looking forward to learning how to get the most out of this camera. Best of luck with your decisions.
 
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