A-cam dII 'High Definition RAW Format Motion Picture Camera

hawaj said:
When Otis? :)
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It won't be long. The software and the hardware are functioning and only need a few weeks of work for GUI, main conversion application and an alternative workflow. HDD and SSD storage is fully tested. I'm currently designing another revision of the enclosure and discussing our options with the machine shop. This is a lengthy process. The Kodak sensors will be available in quantities in January and other sensor options are already available. I'm also evaluating a series of lcd and driver components and an affordable solution for optics. All our components are in good supply. When it's ready we willl show photographs and detailed specifications and get some material shot with it. I don't want to get into preorder stage with 3d drawings or a nonfunctioning camera or make the customer wait 4 months to get his camera.
 
Otis Grapsas said:
I don't want to get into preorder stage with 3d drawings or a nonfunctioning camera or make the customer wait 4 months to get his camera.
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Yes yes yes. Other companies listen to this man and deliver finished and working products instead of a hype. So we as paying customers don't have to be afraid of "designs and specifications that are subject to drastic changes"

:dankk2:


Peter
 
what's the difference? it still comes out when it comes out. whether you tease it or not. oh wait, i know the difference... awareness level.
 
There is a limit to how late information can be published but it depends on the way you like to do business. It wouldn't feel right if after a preorder I couldn't answer a basic question about the product. In my book, specs, pricing and workflow should be fully specified before someone's hard earned cash enters your account.
 
in the public consciousness.

look i'm not defending anybody, just saying there is value in hype. absolutely, no offense intended but realistically, how many people are aware of otis's plans compared to that of red's? and now extend that to how many units each can expect to sell when those products come to fruition.

you and i may find it distasteful, but it works.
 
I agree. But it works only if on the long run one can deliver.
If not it's just a awful waste of time and effort on both the makers and the customers side.
If I look what red promised for the last six months and now refuses to deliver it just makes me puke and run into the arms of ikonoskop. (well actually i did that already at IBC)

Peter
 
You can also deliver earlier by taking compromises in engineering. I don't want crashing or overheating in the field, rendering crashes from betas etc. It's probably good enough for the techno freak that would pay to betatest but not acceptable for us. The product must be fully turnkey, fully functioning and effective.

There is also a cost in time and effort to be considered. If we concentrate on publicity and hype while engineering we will end up delaying the product or releasing it in a compromised state. In order to support the hype you need to answer lots of technical questions and it multiplies the time spent in communication. I don't want a product board filled with rumours and fanboys that cheer up when a bit of insignificant information is released, and product features constantly going in and out of the package. This is degrading to both the consumer and the company. I'm only 33 but I'm very old fashioned in these things.

So, it will have to wait.
 
hype is an example of bad advertisement because of its unreliable facts and promise. it's not good in business. some companies were being put to court because what they advertised is not what the consumer gets. this kind of publicity is very unprofessional because it wastes people's time. hype equals lie. and i don't think i am willing to do business with such company.
 
It's simple. You have a product in the 10,000 price range. But are interested in selling one in the 5,000 range and you see that others are interested in that segment and are already working on it. You have nothing solid in terms of a proposition, so you make one up with an impossibly low price tag or an impossibly high feature set and you present the idea as a product with a disclaimer. You let this boil for a few months and buy time. There is a chance the cost conscious user will wait for your product before he makes a decision vs the competition because he perceives it as a real product. In the meantime you are hurting business for actual products in the range because if you are powerful enough, your buzz is freezing sales in the category. By buying time you engineer a product that will be different in pricing or specs and make use of your disclaimer. Some users will consider the new product and, in any case, you have bought yourself loads of time. I don't think a business that intends to stay in a market for decades behaves like that, but the occational business owner that wants some quick cash within 5 years will do it.
 
judas, hype doesn't inherently equal "lie". clearly there is a lot of anti-red sentiment fueling the perspectives shared here. I for one am brand agnostic. I don't take anyone's business plan personally, i recommend others think about why their energy is focused on these things. companies don't waste my time, or your time. we are responsible for our own time and where our attention is allowed to go.

casting aspersions is equally unprofessional. i don't want to be a part of that.
 
Otis Grapsas said:
It's simple. You have a product in the 10,000 price range. But are interested in selling one in the 5,000 range and you see that others are interested in that segment and are already working on it. You have nothing solid in terms of a proposition, so you make one up with an impossibly low price tag or an impossibly high feature set and you present the idea as a product with a disclaimer. You let this boil for a few months and buy time. There is a chance the cost conscious user will wait for your product before he makes a decision vs the competition because he perceives it as a real product. In the meantime you are hurting business for actual products in the range because if you are powerful enough, your buzz is freezing sales in the category. By buying time you engineer a product that will be different in pricing or specs and make use of your disclaimer. Some users will consider the new product and, in any case, you have bought yourself loads of time. I don't think a business that intends to stay in a market for decades behaves like that, but the occational business owner that wants some quick cash within 5 years will do it.
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in the case of Scarlet, most consumers were unhappy with the camera that was announced and it was revised. i personally believe in the benefits of community-based solutions and although this sort of thing can be corrupted, I think it is a positive force in developing and refining a product that people want to buy. that fixed lens scarlet is still coming in at less than $4000 all in.

otis, how much of what you saw happening with Red's announcements has informed your decisions to make the camera you are making? i don't mean to presume, but i wouldn't be surprised if the voice of that reduser/scarletuser community hasn't benefitted and informed your decisions as well. you just get to avoid the critical backlash that comes with embracing a community with a mob mentality. :)

btw, i'm very interested to know more about what you're developing. can you share more? i'm being serious. i need to make a purchase of 2 or 3 indie-friendly cameras in mid to late 2009 for a production at the end of the year. that may be the ikonoskop or scarlet or possibly yours. what is it?
 
Zak Forsman said:
otis, how much of what you saw happening with Red's announcements has informed your decisions to make the camera you are making? i don't mean to presume, but i wouldn't be surprised if the voice of that reduser/scarletuser community hasn't benefitted and informed your decisions as well. you just get to avoid the critical backlash that comes with embracing a community with a mob mentality.

btw, i'm very interested to know more about what you're developing. can you share more? i'm being serious. i need to make a purchase of 2 or 3 indie-friendly cameras in mid to late 2009 for a production at the end of the year. that may be the ikonoskop or scarlet or possibly yours. what is it?
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You get to read interesting views on the net, but I try to ignore everything that refers to products that have nothing to do with my original concept. I think Scarlet is trying to be everything from consumer to high end. I want something very specific and I would never attempt to cover a market so wide and diversified.

About the camera, it's nothing increddibly innovating, it's a merge of the features a number of close friends were interested in. It is designed with production requirements in mind, so it is not for everyone looking for a camcorder. I posted a short description here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=132566&page=7
 
Hi Ottis. I want to be in the waiting list too. Ive been waiting for a while for panasonic, then for red, then ikonoskop, and when finaly getting somethin with it, you present more specs on it and really your project just looks amazing. :thumbup:
 
brianluce said:
Are you referring to the Rolex? If so, here's what Ikonoskop said:

The Rolex shot did not have an OLPF. We have recorded a lot, with OLPF and without, different kinds of scenes etc. We did though like the Rolex scene so much so we decided to publish it anyway.


OPLPF=Optical Low Pass Filter
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No, I was referring to the smear produced by the lights at the side of the highway. I suppose you're talking about the alliasing in the Rolex scene.

By the way, how acceptably "aggresive" do you think an optical low pass filter can be in a RAW video cam like this, Otis?

I never thought about this question when using a video camera (my experience goes up to 3 CCD 2/3 cams) but there's a lot of debate in the DSLR arena about this point. Some manufacturers choose to implement very strong AA filters in their cams (some Canons, like the 1DsMarkIII or Olympus, like the E-1), others choose to go with a weak one (Nikon D70 or Canon 5D) and, finally, Leica chooses to use no one (DMR, M8). Nobody seems to agree in what solution the real benefits are.
 
Just like in still photography, it depends on the use. A strong filter is technically the "correct" solution. Alias could be a problem if you are photographing detailed detailed textures such as fabrics, especially in lower resolution cameras. An IR only filter preserves a flat (high contrast) MTF up to very high frequencies if you lens is sharp but sometimes the lens itself has antialias effects due to low contrast at high frequencies and you can always defocus a little bit if a shot is really problematic. I'm thinking of adding an option to remove the antialias filter. Any basic technician should be able to switch between the two solutions.

Most cinema lenses will provide more than enough antialias power wide open by themselves when the pixels are smaller than 10um.
 
Yeah, I never learned so much about idigital maging in such a short time than reading Otis`s posts.

Thanks, Frank
 
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