7Q Firmware 1.1.105 first results

Clermond

Clermond

Veteran
I am opening a new thread and would like to ask you to share your opinion, your findings, your test results.

First thing I noticed is that waveform is still affected if you switch LUT on/off view
I shot my favorite color moire test location, an university building with blinds opposite to my office.

Here is a comparison of 4K2HD in sLog and REC709, 4K down-sampled in Resolve to 2K and 2K native.
Exported out of a 2K timeline in Resolve to ProRes LT. All shot with the 18-200 at f=6.3 and 1/16 ND
REC709 in PP4, reset to default before the test.

+ almost no more color moire. Great.
+ better sharpness
- High contrast in REC709 almost crushed blacks
- Purple fringe edges in REC709

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8273739/CLIP0000425_000.zip

Comparison AVCHD vs 4K2HD. AVCHD imported into FCPX as optimized media ProRes HQ
There is a obvious gamma shift in both files. AVCHD is more flat but for me more pleasant
and has no purple edges.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8273739/AVCHD_vs_4K2HD.zip

Can anybody confirm my findings?

4K2HD REC709
4K2HD_REC709.jpg
 
here is another sample of sLog 4K2HD with colour correction all in FCPX.
Applied BMD film to REC 709 LUT at 40%. Every thing else in FCPX.
Pushed highlights, lowered blacks a little, added saturation plus a color mask for the sky.
It holds the blacks in the bushes in the shadow, no clipped highlights.

Next test will be skin tones and low light.
I can imagine that shooting 2K RAW will be an exception from now on.

I hope there will be a REC709 improvement quite soon


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8273739/4K2HD_FCPX.zip

4K2HD_sLog_FCPX.jpg
 
any Purple fringe in your sLog 4K2HD? The 4K2HD REC709 purple fringe looks over terrible, dunno if there is any solution can quick fix it in the post, if not it is really unuseable, i rather shoot in slog
 
Alan Ting Judson said:
any Purple fringe in your sLog 4K2HD? The 4K2HD REC709 purple fringe looks over terrible, dunno if there is any solution can quick fix it in the post, if not it is really unuseable, i rather shoot in slog
Click to expand...

you can dowload the files and judge by yourself. I did not see it in sLog.

Did anybody compare HD ProRes to 4K2HD? It looks quite different.
 
dapoopta said:
do you do any sharpening?
Click to expand...


no sharpening. I want to judge the files as they were recorded.

After having shot some test and compared also to the HD Clips out of the camera.
I have the idea that there is "something happening" when the 4K is downsampled to HD
which caused more contrast and more sharpness. It looks good in sLog but it affects REC709
too much.

edit
here is a comparison, the light might have changed a little when switching the settings
The white fur is very bright and it clipped already. I also see some noise in the 4K2HD
and almost one in the HD.

HD REC709
HD_REC709.jpg




HD sLog
HD_sLog.jpg



4K2sLog
4K2HD_sLog.jpg




file for DL:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8273739/SDI_TEST.zip
 
Last edited:
Is there a NEW S-Log 2 LUT for Davinci Resolve? I cannot seem to find it and I've searched the website several times. I think I'm blind.

If there is a NEW S-Log 2 LUT, can someone link me to it?

Thanks
 
as I understood C-D is still working on a new sLog LUT

For the sLog ProRes I used the Blackmagic Cinema Camera Film to REC709 instead,
set the node key to Gain 0.75 and added a slight S-Kurve in luminance
 
I just downloaded your SDI-TEST with your dog. It is amazing. Can you shoot more footage just in 4K2HD? Loving this!
 
Clermond said:
as I understood C-D is still working on a new sLog LUT

For the sLog ProRes I used the Blackmagic Cinema Camera Film to REC709 instead,
set the node key to Gain 0.75 and added a slight S-Kurve in luminance
Click to expand...

OK, got it. Thanks Clermond

I talked with Andy @ Convergent Design and he told me there was a new S-Log LUT to download, but I could not find it on their website. Maybe I miss-understood him.

I notice if I enter the NEW Resolve settings, the image is off - too saturated and colors are strange. So I entered the OLD 7Q Resolve settings and it looks better, but it's flatter and less saturated than the 4K2HD.
 
Last edited:
Clermond said:
I am opening a new thread and would like to ask you to share your opinion, your findings, your test results.

First thing I noticed is that waveform is still affected if you switch LUT on/off view
I shot my favorite color moire test location, an university building with blinds opposite to my office.

Here is a comparison of 4K2HD in sLog and REC709, 4K down-sampled in Resolve to 2K and 2K native.
Exported out of a 2K timeline in Resolve to ProRes LT. All shot with the 18-200 at f=6.3 and 1/16 ND
REC709 in PP4, reset to default before the test.

+ almost no more color moire. Great.
+ better sharpness
- High contrast in REC709 almost crushed blacks
- Purple fringe edges in REC709

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8273739/CLIP0000425_000.zip

Comparison AVCHD vs 4K2HD. AVCHD imported into FCPX as optimized media ProRes HQ
There is a obvious gamma shift in both files. AVCHD is more flat but for me more pleasant
and has no purple edges.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8273739/AVCHD_vs_4K2HD.zip

Can anybody confirm my findings?

4K2HD REC709
Click to expand...

One thing to look at is that in camera you have the knee/black gamma settings to crush the dynamic range into the awful 709 gamma curve. I wonder whether these settings are reflected in the RAW output, afterall most advice is to leave the RAW hand in hand with Slog. It's not something i've looked at personally (i'm really only interested in maximising what the camera can do and Slog or RAW for me is the correct way)

IMHO you will see the best quality going via 4K yourself, denoising and then downsampling with a good software scale. I don't know how CD debayer for the 4K2HD, it's very cool however it's done but not sure if it is a full debayer at 4K then a scale internally. Guessing maybe not for speed reasons. I have no idea and it's quite rightly a company secret.

I don't like the debayer in Resolve, i've found highlight patterning in some cases and i'm not convinced the scale is that good either. My go to example of a really good debayer is actually Aperture on a Mac which obviously can't be used for motion but open up a single DNG and it's a really good job. I've found the ACR debayering prone to odd coloured highlights every now and again too.

Gamma shift is an issue mostly to do with the different ways QT is supported and is inevitable. I've compared the 4K2HD and the AVCHD Slogs and find they match, i've also compared the 4K RAW to 4K2HD and found a pretty good match there too. Very good in fact. But i had to check and recheck my workflow to make sure in both cases i was not seeing any QT oddness. Some apps love to clamp at legal ranges, Resolve does for example. It doesn't remove the superbrights, you have to bring them down manually though.

I've not seen purple edges like that but as i mentioned i've not spent much time in REC709, it seems it might be some kind of colour processing going on internally there?

The recommended workflow for RAW is now to use the CinemaDNG defaults in resolve as a baseline, not BMD Film. AFAIK BMD Film turns the linear from the DNG into the BlackMagic Log look but because the cameras fundamental colour matrices don't match then it isn't an exact match. So if you apply a BMD LUT then you'll get different results. The CinemaDNG is very simple now, you get a nice linear file to start from, you can pop a LUT or just work with it as is.

Don't forget that AVCHD has some serious noise reduction going on too.

hope this helps
Paul
 
Yep, shot in REC709 today and can report purple fringing too in certain conditions. For example, when the sun came out and the edges of the white buildings in frame got a little hot, was evident there. Best use Slog for now, though not ideal for all situations. I might add - the fringing wasn't obvious in the AVCHD proxies.
 
paulcurtis said:
The recommended workflow for RAW is now to use the CinemaDNG defaults in resolve as a baseline, not BMD Film. AFAIK BMD Film turns the linear from the DNG into the BlackMagic Log look but because the cameras fundamental colour matrices don't match then it isn't an exact match. So if you apply a BMD LUT then you'll get different results. The CinemaDNG is very simple now, you get a nice linear file to start from, you can pop a LUT or just work with it as is.
Click to expand...

Thanks Paul, I appreciate your feedback very much.
Maybe it was misleading: I did not apply the BMD RAW in camera settings.
I just added a serial node to the 4K2HD sLog and played around with gain in key
settings and luminance.

I still wonder why HD and 4K2HD are so different.
 
I guess it's a combo of FS700 and mainly of the internal processing of the 7Q.
There has been a topic here some time ago about this issue before 7Q availability.
But it was not present on that manor.

Actually I did not see it in HD nor in RAW nor in 4H2HD sLog - only in 4K2RAW REC709.
 
Is anyone but me still having issues with white balance?

I have a very clear and distinct difference in whitebalance from the O7Q and onboard FS700 LCD.

Its not super-off like it was earlier, but its still by far more exaggerated on the O7Q than on the LCD.

SLOG2, no LUT.
 
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