7Q and FS-700: Favorite Configurations

J

Jim Ritscher

Well-known member
At this stage of software development on the 7Q, what are the main configurations that you find yourself shooting with most of the time? Is it some version of 2K? And what picture profile? I don't own a 7Q yet. Are there a couple of primary choices?
 
I believe Sony has a white paper available somewhere on the subject.

There's RAW and there's RAW. Sony has to bake in some stuff in order to get it to fit through the single link BNC pipe it uses for output. There's also the theory that it is best to devote the available data space to more of what the end user actually wants and disregard some amount of what is left over. Hence why setting white balance is also important. Canon goes even further with their treatment of RAW.

If you want pure RAW, look to ARRI, RED and Vision Research. They pretty much don't touch it. There is something to be said for each approach, but they are in fact quite different. Remember, RAW technically only means un-deBayered. It doesn't necessarily mean there is no gamma curve applied to exposure levels. It also doesn't mean there are no gains applied, either digital or analog. It only means there is no deBayering. Thus, there are vastly different RAW outputs from different manufacturers.

This is why I laugh when some people insist that they should be able to get the same thing out of any camera if the sensor has similar specs. There is so incredibly much more to a camera than what the sensor does, even in a RAW output camera.
 
IMHO Sony is completely wrong calling this Linear RAW. Scene Linear which is what real life light is, as far as i'm concerned, is the real definition of Linear (and is used in any decent post pipeline too). I'd assumed in Sony speak Linear was the same thing but come to realise that it's not even close.

I really don't know why they adopted the Linear tag, what's wrong with just saying Sony RAW?

If this was true Linear then 12 bits wouldn't be anywhere near close enough to store even 12 stops of data unless there was a curve involved or they were using a version of float on the output (not integers).

As an example , if this was scene linear and the output was integer, the whole of the bottom 3 stops of light would have to be represented in just 8 values (if the overall output was 12 bits).

I don't know whether you can say anything about the nature of the output Mitch?

- Is the output of that SDI integer or floating point?
- What kind of difference does Slog vs Cinegammas actually make?

thanks
Paul
 
I think you should test for yourself to see exactly what is going on. There is a great deal of information available in the signal if you engage the SLog2 in Picture Profile while outputting RAW. And for the most part it does linearize the gamma. That's why we recommend its use. But you can choose to output with REC709 gamma in place on the RAW and still gain the benefit of color controls in the deBayering of the signal. There are uses for each.

Please note that Convergent Design has published suggested basic starting LUTs for shooting either way and then posting through Resolve. These are simply starting points and we encourage you to develop your own preferred settings, but it allows one to begin to see what is possible in the different camera signals.
 
Mitch Gross said:
I think you should test for yourself to see exactly what is going on. There is a great deal of information available in the signal if you engage the SLog2 in Picture Profile while outputting RAW. And for the most part it does linearize the gamma. That's why we recommend its use. But you can choose to output with REC709 gamma in place on the RAW and still gain the benefit of color controls in the deBayering of the signal. There are uses for each.
Click to expand...

I would if any units had reached the UK :)

My concern is that i notice some poor shadow tonality with the standard camera anyway and i hope that the RAW output (not that we can see in 4K yet) would improve on this or at least not worsen it. We have no idea what the path of the signal is going to RAW compared to the default output or how that signal is altered. If engaging Slog affects the signal then we know that some processing is happening in camera.

You're right in the sense that i'd prefer to test for myself as it's all speculation otherwise and at the end of the day you're producing a generic recorder for all cameras so the minutae of FS700 insides is not really your call, but this beats drumming fingers when waiting and CD probably know more than anyone else right now.

I don't really understand how a REC709 gamma curve can be called Linear though...! But if the RAW signal can have it's gamma adjusted in this way that opens up some interesting possibilities.

Are you aware of any data or information about the nature of that SDI output that's publicly readable?

thanks
Paul
 
paulcurtis said:
I would if any units had reached the UK :)

My concern is that i notice some poor shadow tonality with the standard camera anyway and i hope that the RAW output (not that we can see in 4K yet) would improve on this or at least not worsen it. We have no idea what the path of the signal is going to RAW compared to the default output or how that signal is altered. If engaging Slog affects the signal then we know that some processing is happening in camera.

You're right in the sense that i'd prefer to test for myself as it's all speculation otherwise and at the end of the day you're producing a generic recorder for all cameras so the minutae of FS700 insides is not really your call, but this beats drumming fingers when waiting and CD probably know more than anyone else right now.

I don't really understand how a REC709 gamma curve can be called Linear though...! But if the RAW signal can have it's gamma adjusted in this way that opens up some interesting possibilities.

Are you aware of any data or information about the nature of that SDI output that's publicly readable?

thanks
Paul
Click to expand...
One of the first tests we ran was a comparison across different picture profiles/gamma curves whilst shooting raw in a static/controlled lighting environment... Have to say whilst there was certainly a minor shift on the histogram, it was very difficult to tell the difference.... As with you, I'd really like to know what the camera is doing, for instance the ISO base also changes in raw when you shift gamma, however you certainly don't see a two stop shift in exposure when moving from cine2 to s-log 2...

I'm away at the mo but we will hopefully be able to run some more tests before Christmas, once I'm back
 
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Stuart Keasley said:
Not sure who you've ordered through Paul, but I can tell you for sure, units have reached the UK... We've had ours for a few weeks now.

One of the first tests we ran was a comparison across different picture profiles/gamma curves whilst shooting raw in a static/controlled lighting environment... Have to say whilst there was certainly a minor shift on the histogram, it was very difficult to tell the difference.... As with you, I'd really like to know what the camera is doing, for instance the ISO base also changes in raw when you shift gamma, however you certainly don't see a two stop shift in exposure when moving from cine2 to s-log 2...

I'm away at the mo but we will hopefully be able to run some more tests before Christmas, once I'm back
Click to expand...

You have a PM!

It's very unclear what the O7 seems to be doing, even without being able to use one. Or rather very unclear what the 700 is doing.

Look forward to hearing more

thanks
Paul
 
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