7Q - 4KTO2.5k possible in future?

llirik

llirik

Well-known member
Reading up on all this 4K2HD talk and seeing the results compared to the 2k... I was just wondering now that the 7Q can make a nice image from 4k down to 10bit 1080... are there any plans (or is it even possible with the hardware) for other resolutions from the 4k signal?

Basically... say to get a 2.5k image (like the BMCC resolution) in prores. I may have a rough memory of reading that CD may offer 4k compressed in the future, but unable to actually find where i read that (maybe it was talk of the "popular compressed codec" before prores was official?)

I can see myself using higher than 1080 but lower than 4k in many cases. Firstly (and probably biggest) is that we can avoid the huge space and time requirements of 4k raw. Secondly, any time you use stabilization, you're losing resolution. a higher resolution would help. Thirdly, recropping... get that little bit of extra reach after the fact (great for interviews).

So my question basically (probably to Mitch Gross)... is the odyssey even capable of something like this, or is there something hardware wise stopping it?
 
In theory there is nthing in the hardware preventing it. It's just more programming. But I would note that we are unlikely to make anything that would translate to a non-standard resolution. There just isn't going to be a big demand for it. That said, 4K is certainly a standard resolution and we fully intend to support it.
 
Thanks for the answer Mitch.

Instead of starting a new thread, had another question.

Is there a way (or plans in future update) to keep the on-screen info to be off DURING recording? When we hit HIDE, it only stays off during framing, but I would think that not being distracted by all that while shooting/focusing is more important. It's a bit jarring for me, anyway.
 
as 4K ProRes should be present but is still future imho it's a moot point to think about future options as present.
 
llirik said:
Thanks for the answer Mitch.

Instead of starting a new thread, had another question.

Is there a way (or plans in future update) to keep the on-screen info to be off DURING recording? When we hit HIDE, it only stays off during framing, but I would think that not being distracted by all that while shooting/focusing is more important. It's a bit jarring for me, anyway.
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But then how would you know how much memory or battery power you had left? Or even that it was recording?
 
Mitch Gross said:
Why? We have different programmers and engineers working on different functions.
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because I'd like to see the promised and paid in advance features coming to my 7Q
before making promises about further options. I thought there were not enough engineer
man power to realize all features? I would strongly suggest that C-D focusses all resources
to supply a bug free 7Q with all features announced at NAB 2013
 
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2.5K would be an interesting idea. Maybe even better would be 4K at the lower data rates rather than 880Mbps (I presume that's going to be the standard data rate for 4K?). That still could be pretty unmanageable for corporate interview type scenarios where the 4K is great for reframing etc. Am I right in saying that would be around 6.6GB per minute?

The standard or LT compression modes would be essential I think - but I don't hold out much hope for these any time soon. Maybe Mitch can confirm if other datarates will make an appearance along with the 4K Prores mode or not?
 
Mitch Gross said:
But then how would you know how much memory or battery power you had left? Or even that it was recording?
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I second having the option to turn all menus off while recording as well. I never start a shot without checking battery and memory, never check them during a take. You would know you are recording because there is nothing but the picture on the screen. :)

I would also love to have the option to automatically remove focus, waveform info etc. when changed to playback mode. Now you need to push a lot of "buttons" to get a clean playback and you need to push them again to get your tools on when you go back to shooting mode.

Sami
 
Pgale said:
2.5K would be an interesting idea. Maybe even better would be 4K at the lower data rates rather than 880Mbps (I presume that's going to be the standard data rate for 4K?). That still could be pretty unmanageable for corporate interview type scenarios where the 4K is great for reframing etc. Am I right in saying that would be around 6.6GB per minute?

The standard or LT compression modes would be essential I think - but I don't hold out much hope for these any time soon. Maybe Mitch can confirm if other datarates will make an appearance along with the 4K Prores mode or not?
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does that make sense?
For what kind of purpose you would use ProRes LT? In sLog2 you still have to do some grading,
you would need high data rates. REC709 still suffers from too steep gamma and increasing purple edges.
btw there is a 4K low data rate solution for 1/3 the price of a 7Q with SSDs, codec & batteries: GH4
 
There are many things planed in our future and we always look ahead to what makes sense next, and then after that. Discussion and suggestions of features are always excellent feedback to us, as they come from the end users directly. That said, we have many tasks on hand already and we know that we need to complete them first. But our products do not exist in a vacuum and we are always listening and making plans for the future.
 
Clermond said:
does that make sense?
For what kind of purpose you would use ProRes LT? In sLog2 you still have to do some grading,
you would need high data rates. REC709 still suffers from too steep gamma and increasing purple edges.
btw there is a 4K low data rate solution for 1/3 the price of a 7Q with SSDs, codec & batteries: GH4
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Yes I think it would definitely make sense for any web delivered video where 4k is advantageous for cropping, reframing etc. Although in practice I still need to decide if it's worth it. Won't be doing that until the compressed 4k is available.

I'm a windows / adobe CC user so not used to prores until the 7Q came along. How would LT or the standard prores mode compare to the 700 AVCHD recording? I'm guessing it'll still be good or better????

Having 4K in a quality that equals or slightly exceeds the inbuilt AVCHD recording quality but is still manageable file size wise would be really important for me I think.

In my experience so far, SLOG2 hasn't needed a tremendous amount of grading, just some contrast and a saturation boost. We grade all of our footage on pretty much every project.

After recently spending around £20k on 700, lenses, O7Q etc I'm not looking to another camera just yet! And most definitely not a DSLR - horrendous for usability. I did get a 70D a few years ago and do use it a lot for stills but not for video. Horrible ;)
 
Essami said:
I second having the option to turn all menus off while recording as well. I never start a shot without checking battery and memory, never check them during a take. You would know you are recording because there is nothing but the picture on the screen. :)

I would also love to have the option to automatically remove focus, waveform info etc. when changed to playback mode. Now you need to push a lot of "buttons" to get a clean playback and you need to push them again to get your tools on when you go back to shooting mode.

Sami
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Yup, what he said.

Though I read Mitch's reply as sarcastic, which wasn't really an answer. If it wasn't sarcastic, then what Essami pointed out. Or you could have reduced info, or heavily dimmed as to not distract. and A simple Red dot in the corner for record like we've had for years....
 
As Mitch said, I don't see the point of having a non-standard intermediate resolution between 2 and 4K to work with.

Maybe a few user preset views are indeed useful, like showing only battery level and record indication for example.
 
Pgale said:
How would LT or the standard prores mode compare to the 700 AVCHD recording? I'm guessing it'll still be good or better????

Having 4K in a quality that equals or slightly exceeds the inbuilt AVCHD recording quality but is still manageable file size wise would be really important for me I think.
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ProRes 422 and ProRes 422(LT) would likely still be better than AVC recording. We are still talking about 10-bit v. 8-bit.

And of course let's remember that the internal AVCHD recording is, well, HD not 4K.
 
llirik said:
Yup, what he said.

Though I read Mitch's reply as sarcastic, which wasn't really an answer. If it wasn't sarcastic, then what Essami pointed out. Or you could have reduced info, or heavily dimmed as to not distract. and A simple Red dot in the corner for record like we've had for years....
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Hey, when I'm being sarcastic you'll know it! :-D

I do see your points and I will reiterate them to the engineers. I'm all about a proper and healthy user interface. I have a bunch of ideas for us to consider implementing but I certainly don't claim to know all the answers. We take such input seriously, and there are a number of changes we have implemented inside of firmware updates or in planned releases that came from such suggestions. At least a couple of them from this forum.
 
Mitch Gross said:
ProRes 422 and ProRes 422(LT) would likely still be better than AVC recording. We are still talking about 10-bit v. 8-bit.

And of course let's remember that the internal AVCHD recording is, well, HD not 4K.
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Yeah, for me, the standard and LT modes would be very attractive for those jobs that don't demand the top end datarates, particularly 4K. Can't wait for usable 4K - I'm hoping will really open up a load of possibilities in post.
 
Prores LT 4k is still ~50MBps or >16x the bitrate of AVCHD, 2x that of XAVC 4K, and as high as the highes RED Scarlet 4K bitrate. Frankly I wouldn't mind an even lower bitrate option as well.
 
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