720p vs 720pn, why bother?

T

TwoHatCat

Member
If the camera will shoot 24p in 720pn mode, as well as all of the other frame rates, and since (I believe) the quality of 720pn at 24 would be the same as that of straight 720p at 24, why would anyone bother shooting in the straight 720p format at all, when the 720pn (native) mode will result in 2.5 times the recording time on a p2 card? Where would be the advantage?

If that's a stupid question, feel free to make as much fun of me as you like.
 
They put the 24P option in there so that you could record to devices such as the firestore and to a computer. Only p2 can do 24pn effectively
 
It's not a stupid question, but there are valid reasons for wanting to use the regular mode.

The native mode doesn't stream out the firewire port. If you want to capture live to a computer or stream to a computer or capture live to a DVCPRO-HD tape deck or anything like that, then "native" mode is not what you'd want to use; you'd have to use the "over 60" mode.

If you're recording on the P2 card, that's what native mode was designed for and where it shines.
 
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Thanks alot!

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Barry_Green said:
It's not a stupid question, but there are valid reasons for wanting to use the regular mode.

The native mode doesn't stream out the firewire port. If you want to capture live to a computer or stream to a computer or capture live to a DVCPRO-HD tape deck or anything like that, then "native" mode is not what you'd want to use; you'd have to use the "over 60" mode.

If you're recording on the P2 card, that's what native mode was designed for and where it shines.
Click to expand...


Barry... i have this question:

Using Native mode is not possible to capture in FCP?
or is just when capture live (firewire) with out recording in P2 before?
 
Barry_Green said:
It's not a stupid question, but there are valid reasons for wanting to use the regular mode.

The native mode doesn't stream out the firewire port. If you want to capture live to a computer or stream to a computer or capture live to a DVCPRO-HD tape deck or anything like that, then "native" mode is not what you'd want to use; you'd have to use the "over 60" mode.

If you're recording on the P2 card, that's what native mode was designed for and where it shines.
Click to expand...

So if I am P.N. to the card (pun intended), then What happens when you pull the file off the card? Is that when the computer automatically adds the other frames?
I would image that they need to be added at some point, or do they?
 
Fernando Kurezyn Jr. said:
Using Native mode is not possible to capture in FCP?
Click to expand...
You cannot capture live through the firewire to FCP when in Native mode. But you can just copy the native-mode files off the card and over to FCP.

or is just when capture live (firewire) with out recording in P2 before?
Click to expand...
Correct. But the nice thing is, unless I misunderstood what Evin said, FCP will actually turn a 720/24P "over 60" clip into 720/24pN when it captures it live. If you stream 720/24P "over 60" to FCP, it'll remove duplicate frames when it writes the QT file to the hard disk. At least, I think that's what he said.

So it's pretty much a non-issue.
 
Green Hornet said:
So if I am P.N. to the card (pun intended), then What happens when you pull the file off the card? Is that when the computer automatically adds the other frames?
I would image that they need to be added at some point, or do they?
Click to expand...
No, they're totally superfluous; they're only necessary if you intend to master to tape (or broadcast on a 720/60p broadcast). In fact, the issue has always been one of "how do I REMOVE the duplicate frames", which is why Panasonic offers a hardware frame rate converter, and FCP offers a software tool to do the same job.

You want duplicate frames removed. That's what 24pN does in-camera. FCP can apparently do it during live firewire capture too.
 
And Avid Xpress Pro HD simply removes them without bothering with a utility. It simply assumes you want to if it was shot as an "N" project, and gives you the option of not removing the "untagged" frames if for some reason you so choose to keep them, and you shot in a straight 24P or 30P (not "N") format. Very straigtforward. (However, this fact was overlooked in their latest documentation, and therefore some people have gotten the idea that Avid won't handle these formats. I found a paper from Avid on the ACSR-L list that explains it, if anyone wants me to attach a copy i will do so.)
 
we are waiting over here in europe to see the hvx coming out..hope this will work till the end of march..

My question is: if id record 25p to the firestore(if its out once), how many minutes can i capture on the 100gb fs 100?

thanks for your help, its my first post, but i am just trying to find the best and payable solution for doing a documentary(i know i am crazy....40 hours of recording approximatly!) in april..!
 
At least 100 minutes, and maybe as much as 200 depending on how (or if) they implement "native" recording by stripping out the duplicate frames. I don't think they will, so count on 100 minutes on an FS-100.
 
Barry_Green said:
You cannot capture live through the firewire to FCP when in Native mode. But you can just copy the native-mode files off the card and over to FCP.

So, Barry, the way to do that is only removing the P2 Card from the HVX and then inserting
in to the laptop (or computer) to copy the files, rigth?... (but never over FireWire
from the camara, even if you allready have recorded your footage on the P2 card..??)
dudee sorry about my english!! lol (hope you understand what i mean)

BTW: What kind of imput you need in your laptop to insert your P2 Card?...
does PowerBook has one?... or that new MacBook Pro has any???..
i read that it has some ExpressCard/34 Slot imput.. or some thing.. to connect
flash memorys... and other stuff..
Click to expand...
 
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