720p/60fps - fast shutter water clips wanted

Thanks Barry! some other shots at different shutter angles would be a great idea!

Also, in the reflection of the glass I think I can see the lighting set up. It look like 8 different Kino Flo banks!!! plus a handful of other spot lights! Tell me that's not how many lights you needed?
 
You would need a lot of lights to get a good image indoors @ 1/1000th so it is likely he needed those. 1/1000 lets in 20x less light than 1/48 which is what we usually judge the light sensitivity by. That's a pretty big hit!!! Not the camera's fault by any means.....just the way optics and shutters and iris work together. Notice how the background is out of focus? I am guessing Barry had the iris as wide as it would go.

Nice shot! My only critique is that the colors look a little flat. Reminds me of my old XL2 when it was light starved. The colors just kinda go "wonk!". Maybe that's how it really looked but the green of the "chrismas tree" seems a little bland.

Nice work!
 
so you do have ur HVX already..... i thot you guys returned the cam after the marital arts shoot...!

what a way to spend the holidays! :)

Thanks for the footage...!
 
Brian Petersen said:
Also, in the reflection of the glass I think I can see the lighting set up. It look like 8 different Kino Flo banks!!! plus a handful of other spot lights! Tell me that's not how many lights you needed?
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The curvature of the glass caused multiple reflections.

You're not that far off though. I had four 4-banks, plus two 650's, plus a 250. Then for backlight I had a 1k. So yes, a lot of light. I was trying to get the shutter speed to 10 degrees (which is about 1/2000) so I needed 5 stops more light than normal -- which means 32 times as much light! In the end I posted the 22.5-degree shutter one, since the difference between 10 degrees and 22.5 degrees was minimal, yet the 22.5 degree version was twice as bright.
 
Hi Barry,

Just wondering if you could let me know what the shutter speed in terms of degree's means. I'm 17, and trying desperatley to learn as much as I possibley can. I thought it just would have been stated that the footage is 60fps and shutter speed 1/1000th .

Thanks Barry, your a champ.
From another long time reader and first time poster.
 
Well, yes, you could do it that way, but the thing is, there's two different modes in the camera: FILM CAM mode, and VIDEO CAM mode. In VIDEO CAM, the shutter speed is expressed in the term of a fraction of a second, and doesn't change based on frame rate (i.e., 1/1000). In FILM CAM mode, the frame rate and the shutter speed are intrinsically linked: the shutter speed is dependent on what the frame rate is.

So if you shoot with a 180-degree shutter at 30 fps, you'll get twice as much light as if you'd shot with a 180-degree shutter at 60 fps.

The angle-to-exposure calculation is 1/((360/degrees)*fps). So for a 180-degree shutter, at 24 fps, it becomes 1 / ((360/180) * 24), or 1 / (2*24), or 1/48.

(the 360 references the full degrees of a circle, and 180 represents the open wedge shutter in that circle, so a 180-degree shutter would be half-solid, half-open).

So for what I was shooting, it was 10 degrees at 60 fps, or 1 / ((360/10) * 60), or 1/2160. For the 22.5 degree shutter, it equates to about 1/960.
 
Barry_Green said:
Well, yes, you could do it that way, but the thing is, there's two different modes in the camera: FILM CAM mode, and VIDEO CAM mode. In VIDEO CAM, the shutter speed is expressed in the term of a fraction of a second, and doesn't change based on frame rate (i.e., 1/1000). In FILM CAM mode, the frame rate and the shutter speed are intrinsically linked: the shutter speed is dependent on what the frame rate is.

So if you shoot with a 180-degree shutter at 30 fps, you'll get twice as much light as if you'd shot with a 180-degree shutter at 60 fps.

The angle-to-exposure calculation is 1/((360/degrees)*fps). So for a 180-degree shutter, at 24 fps, it becomes 1 / ((360/180) * 24), or 1 / (2*24), or 1/48.

(the 360 references the full degrees of a circle, and 180 represents the open wedge shutter in that circle, so a 180-degree shutter would be half-solid, half-open).

So for what I was shooting, it was 10 degrees at 60 fps, or 1 / ((360/10) * 60), or 1/2160. For the 22.5 degree shutter, it equates to about 1/960.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that Barry. I plan on using this cam for a my Major English Work as I am in my last year of school. This site, the people here and your advice (Jarred's too) have been invaluable to my learning process, so thanks again.
 
So does this mean that when shooting at 180-degrees, the shutter is physically only open half way? Or does it mean that the shutter is running at twice the framerate effectively reducing the light by half?

Sorry about this, just need to make sure that my fundementals are correct.

Thanks again
 
On a real film camera the shutter is kind of like a circular disk (hence the 360 degrees) and it spins at one revolotioin per frame. If the shutter is 180 then half of the circle is gone and therefore when it spins it letting light in 1/2 the time and blocking light the other half. This is how 24fps gets a standard shutter speed of 1/48. By the same token if your frame rate is 30fps then the effective shutter is 1/60th. However in both cases the shutter angle was 180 degrees.

At 60fps the the effective shutter would be 1/120th but still shutter angle of 180. Is this right Barry?

To clarify from the above question the shutter does not stay open half way per se. It opens and closes to achieve the right amount of light to expose your picture. On a film camera it is a mechanical shutter that rotates which create a unique slur look that electronic shutters can only approximate.

Again I am not expert but I believe that is about how it works.
 
icicle22 said:
On a real film camera the shutter is kind of like a circular disk (hence the 360 degrees) and it spins at one revolotioin per frame. If the shutter is 180 then half of the circle is gone and therefore when it spins it letting light in 1/2 the time and blocking light the other half. This is how 24fps gets a standard shutter speed of 1/48. By the same token if your frame rate is 30fps then the effective shutter is 1/60th. However in both cases the shutter angle was 180 degrees.

At 60fps the the effective shutter would be 1/120th but still shutter angle of 180. Is this right Barry?

To clarify from the above question the shutter does not stay open half way per se. It opens and closes to achieve the right amount of light to expose your picture. On a film camera it is a mechanical shutter that rotates which create a unique slur look that electronic shutters can only approximate.

Again I am not expert but I believe that is about how it works.
Click to expand...

Okay, thanks for that. One thing I don't understand however, is why by increasing the shutter speeds (or having a lower angle) we are able to achieve a more filmic look. Wouldn't it be logical that 180-degrees would give us a closer look to film, as this is what film does by standard? Or is the reason that we are using a lower angle simply to make the droplets of water more clear?
 
Icicle22's explanation is correct, of course. Yes, by default the 60fps shutter would be 1/120th (if using 180 degrees).

Per Brad's last question: the goal of this test was not to make filmlike footage, it was to show slow motion while freezing the droplets. With film, you'd normally shoot this type of shot with a fairly expensive synchronized strobelight system which would flash an intensely bright pulse of light for an extremely short duration (thus freezing the motion). But since I don't exactly have those systems in my garage, I went for the other way to do it: use the tiniest shutter angle possible, to freeze the motion that way (which required pouring as much light as I could get on the subject).

For filmlike motion, you'd typically use 24fps with a shutter angle of anywhere from around 150 to 220 degrees, with 172.8 or 180 degrees being most common.
 
Barry_Green said:
Well, yes, you could do it that way, but the thing is, there's two different modes in the camera: FILM CAM mode, and VIDEO CAM mode. In VIDEO CAM, the shutter speed is expressed in the term of a fraction of a second, and doesn't change based on frame rate (i.e., 1/1000). In FILM CAM mode, the frame rate and the shutter speed are intrinsically linked: the shutter speed is dependent on what the frame rate is.
.
Click to expand...

Wow, what a nice feature. I guess it make the vid camera more friendly to those used to film cameras. Shows who Panasonic are aiming it at.
 
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