Tim Nitsch
Well-known member
LOL oh so the MkII is a toy now... So i'm just "playing around" then if I'm using it on a shoot, and the money I get from those shoots is just "pretend money" right?
5K camera for $1000?
- Thread starter alex1
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LOL oh so the MkII is a toy now... So i'm just "playing around" then if I'm using it on a shoot, and the money I get from those shoots is just "pretend money" right?
androbot2084
Carbonite Member
But if you are fortunate enough to make good money on a shoot what is stopping you from upgrading to 4K? Ten years ago the standard definition shooters made the same argument and refused to admit the fact that the children deserve better toys.
William_Robinette
Shallow Member
Classy.
Hey, the "pretend money" I made of my 7D bought me much better cameras that have progressed my career even further. I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Heck I had a 7D shoot lined up today before Sandy hit. But that doesn't mean I feel like calling those Canon cameras anything but what they are. I have never been on or seen a production that has chosen a 5d/7d over another camera system for anything other then small size or cost of rental (and the latter isn't really the gigs you want anyway). It's not fun to work with, from an operator's standpoint it is a PITA, you have to add a bonkers amount of stuff onto it to make it really production worthy (haha) and by then you have taken away one of it's two major advantages.
As much as Canon would like everyone to think they were playing for the future the fact is that the video feature on the 5d was implemented for journalists to get video out in the field. It later found a home with all those who were hanging 35mm adapters off their 1/3" CCD cameras (ugh, that was terrible) and then later a lot of people who realized a camera that delivered footage that made people ohh and ahh was within their grasp. They have changed a great number of things - but they are not by any measure a professional system when used for video.
The Red One has been in the market for 5 years now. It is still among a very small group of high resolution digital 35mm motion cameras actually available. One can count the cameras that can reproduce the full resolution of S35mm film from a 4k digital scan on the fingers of one hand and have some left over. In the right hands it can produce stunning imagery and in that sense is still a very competitive camera.
I expect the price drop on Epic will about equal the upgrade cost to Dragon 6k.
At least Red is passionate about what they do and care about who they do it for. Sony is still a soulless multi-national conglomerate.
I expect the price drop on Epic will about equal the upgrade cost to Dragon 6k.
At least Red is passionate about what they do and care about who they do it for. Sony is still a soulless multi-national conglomerate.
Danielvilliers
Veteran
think both camera had there share in bringing down the large sensor camera market. But I think the 5d2 had a much bigger impact because it gave to everyone the possibility to experience and work with the large sensor look without some very unpractical adapter. The price was so low that it just drew the market price down and the damage was done. Everyone wanted the large sensor look and we where no more talking about a $ 25 000 camera but a $ 2500 one.
I am not RED hater. I think they brought some valuable competition to this dinosaur industry. As I said before, there are other players that have filled the gap for lower price users like the BMC. But it is the Romantic childish thought that they are some knight with a shinning armor for the video/film industry. So it occured to their boss for the last two weeks that the price of component has gone down and he could lower the price the next day from a competitor release. So give me a break, it is as stupid as the excuse I gave to my parent or teacher when I was in primary education.
I am not RED hater. I think they brought some valuable competition to this dinosaur industry. As I said before, there are other players that have filled the gap for lower price users like the BMC. But it is the Romantic childish thought that they are some knight with a shinning armor for the video/film industry. So it occured to their boss for the last two weeks that the price of component has gone down and he could lower the price the next day from a competitor release. So give me a break, it is as stupid as the excuse I gave to my parent or teacher when I was in primary education.
I can tell you from direct experience that spot market prices for some critical electronic components in very short supply in the wake of the Japan disaster went up 20 times or more over normal volume pricing. That is the market that Red was buying in when Epic was released. Prices have fallen back to normal levels now as production facilities have come back on line. So yes, their material costs have come down significantly.
Red's impact over the last 5 years on the major and well budgeted indie theatrical feature production market, the ones that actually see theatrical distribution, was huge.
Canon's impact is more on the consumer no budget indie, student, hobbyist, and low end professional market where video is concerned.
Red's impact over the last 5 years on the major and well budgeted indie theatrical feature production market, the ones that actually see theatrical distribution, was huge.
Canon's impact is more on the consumer no budget indie, student, hobbyist, and low end professional market where video is concerned.
Sure. But most of the guys here are of the lower bracket and have never used Red, Alexa or the F65. But we do use cams that are less than 10k. Doing documentaries and short narratives/commercials/music videos is still shooting stuff, even if it's not for the cinemas. Actually quite a small number of people make stuff for the cinemas.
How do you know the engineers at Sony are not extremely passionate about these products? How do you know the CEO isn't? Sony don't run like RED (and that's no bad thing)... It doesn't mean the people behind their cameras are not every bit as passionate as the RED guys.
I have been both a customer and a dealer of their products. I am sure there are dedicated and passionate individuals involved at different levels of product development, but what they make and sell is strictly decided by marketing data and the bottom line.
I've bought plenty of Sony products too.... I must have missed the brochure outlining their business practises and evil, soulless ways.
Just because RED had to be louder and more communicative than the large companies doesn't mean they are not working to the same tune as every other business. If you are a RED fan, it goes unnoticed. But if you couldn't care less, you can see just as many calls that are made around bottom line... Look at the price of SSDs, and don't give me the copy and paste line "oh, but it is to control speeds". Any of the top end SSDs would run fine on RED.
Every business has good and bad practises. You have to decide which company has the right balance for you. You have gone RED, great, they make excellent cameras. Others choose Sony, great, they make excellent cameras.
Unless they are killing baby pandas to make the straps, I don't see the point in being too concerned about what their business intentions are.
Just because RED had to be louder and more communicative than the large companies doesn't mean they are not working to the same tune as every other business. If you are a RED fan, it goes unnoticed. But if you couldn't care less, you can see just as many calls that are made around bottom line... Look at the price of SSDs, and don't give me the copy and paste line "oh, but it is to control speeds". Any of the top end SSDs would run fine on RED.
Every business has good and bad practises. You have to decide which company has the right balance for you. You have gone RED, great, they make excellent cameras. Others choose Sony, great, they make excellent cameras.
Unless they are killing baby pandas to make the straps, I don't see the point in being too concerned about what their business intentions are.
Danielvilliers
Veteran
To limit the impact of the dslr market to just some lowly commercial work and amateur one is really bias. I have seen ton of work on prime time network in France and uk done on dslr. Their are a ton of example even in Hollywood where they used it. I think that today there are much more appropriate camera nowadays to do that. Even then, there is a show, I think which is called ted that is shot entirely on the Nikon D800.
It is true that you will find more red in the well budgeted indie and some major hollywood production. But there lies the problem, this is only a small market compared to the volume of dslr video. It is just a drop in the ocean in terms of volume of camera and lens sold and the total market value. The dslr revolution (note this is a widely used and agrred term in the video world) It has showed to the big camera manufacturers that there was a big market for large sensor camera. The calculus was simple, either you sell in the tens a $ 100 000 camera, or you sell in thousand or tens of thousand a $ 5k to $ 15k camera.
philiplipetz
Veteran
Look at the price of their media for recording RAW, $6000 US per hour! makes RED look very attractive
Zephyrnoid
Veteran
Oddly, some of the best 'vintage' programming and production still exists on 4:3 SD. What makes it slick after all these years is excellence in audio and scripting.
Cory Braun
Well-known member
I think you're thinking of Wilfred. Ted is similar, but it's a talking teddy bear instead of a talking dog (and it's a movie rather than a show).