5K camera for $1000?

Yeah, I think the title to this thread is a little too optimistic...

and by a little I mean a lot. A whole bunch. Like... a sh!tload
 
haha yeah the $1000 price is very optimistic, but in like 5 years...its gonna be really interesting.

I think in like 10 years kids will have Alexa quality video in personal cameras. Lighting, sound, framing etc? Different answer.
 
It'll drop to whatever makes it directly competitive with Sony's announced "New F". I mean, that's just really obvious, isn't it? Red is, like Kholi said, responding directly to a perceived competitor. They did this when Canon introduced the C300 -- they found out Canon's scheduled press conference day, then they scheduled their Scarlet introduction to take place immediately after the C300 was revealed, so they could position it most competitively and therefore steal Canon's thunder -- which, largely, I think they did.

So now, Sony is scheduled to make an announcement on 10/30, in which it is widely expected that they will introduce at least one new 4K camera, if not two, and likely priced to compete with the Scarlet and Epic, as that represents a gap in their product line right now (the gap between the F3 and the F65 is a pretty wide gap). And Red just so happens to announce a price reduction announcement scheduled for (basically immediately) thereafter. Can there be any doubt? Surely the Epic will be repriced to compete aggressively against whatever Sony introduces.

It won't be "$1000" and it won't be $25k like the Red One, it'll be -- whatever it needs to be, to make the Epic a compelling alternative to whatever the new Sony introduction is. Now, I expect Sony to come out with basically a $20k and a $30k price point, or thereabouts, to compete against the C300 and C500. Accordingly, I'd expect the Epic brain (originally $27,500, wasn't it, then raised to $35,000) to be repriced to compete against that $30k price point. Sony will probably include a lens mount, viewfinder, battery, etc., so Red will likely reprice the Epic brain so that a comparable package can be built for a comparable price as to the Sony offering, and that means the Epic brain will probably be going back to around $27k.

But yeah, it won't be $1000... only way you're going to get a $1000 5K camera is if GoPro makes it...
 
I was over there to read what people are saying. Honestly, It seems like a contest. Who can ass kiss Jim the most thread. omg it's laughable. One guy's talking about how the Red community ows JIM and Jarred a beer because he lowered the price on a cam that been out over a year now.

Geez, I think if I were Jim, I would be sick to my stomach to read such transparent brown nosing from complete strangers.
 
I'm sure potential competition is a factor, but just one of several. Jannard's explanation makes sense too. Lower component costs since the market effects of the Japan disaster are mostly over, improvements in manufacturing efficiencies after a year in production, plus most of the intitial research and development costs have been recouped already. They are not beholden to outside investors, so why not return some of the profits to build their client base?
 
barry is spot on about RED waiting to see what sony does/pricing on the 30th. nothing more nothing less. i dont think RED would lower their prices is *they didnt have too*. jeez. are people stupid? generosity? hmmm. i doubt it. although the fanboys over at RED think so. sooo much sucking up its hard to read past a few pages.

so, RED's a very fine camera & gear company and now the walls are starting to close in and will get progressively faster. you lower the price ONLY because you have to. nothing else.

love the competition.

david

p.s.
canon just lowered the price on the 5DmkIII from $3500 to $2950. plus they are adding in april (422 HDMI out). i dont recall canon ever lowering the price of a new camera that fast...ever. pressure. BMC kind of pressure.
 
maranfilms said:
I was over there to read what people are saying. Honestly, It seems like a contest. Who can ass kiss Jim the most thread. omg it's laughable. One guy's talking about how the Red community ows JIM and Jarred a beer because he lowered the price on a cam that been out over a year now.

Geez, I think if I were Jim, I would be sick to my stomach to read such transparent brown nosing from complete strangers.
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Someone is jealous ;)
 
david_p said:
barry is spot on about RED waiting to see what sony does/pricing on the 30th. nothing more nothing less.
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Tactically, yes. Tactical freebies are wonderful, and no sense blowing off a gift from a competitor.

i dont think RED would lower their prices is *they didnt have too*.
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Since this is presidential election season and careful parsing is a high art, I could be timid and say "yes, but". But really the answer is "if you believe his post, which is that he has earned back his NRE and can now price the camera differently whilst sustaining the business, then indeed RED could be able to price across a really wide spectrum. Many companies have learned that R&D doesn't scale linearly: you hire a bunch of smart people, 99% of their ideas are dumb, but the 1% are a game changer. You don't then go an hire 2x more R&D people hoping to get to 2% smart, or even 2x more smart ideas. YOU PLAY AS HARD AND FAST AS YOU CAN WITH THE NEWLY CHANGED RULES. RED do have a pricing decision to make, which is really, how many R&D people do they want to invest in (hint--not many, and only the best), how much profit is needed to keep the business sustainable through a variety of situations, and then they have the choice how to to distribute the remaining $$: dividends (Jim is already a billionaire and doesn't need an income stream to fund his retirement)? excess cash in the bank (that earns 0% interest)? Or back into the hands of customers, that will then continue to change the game.

jeez. are people stupid? generosity? hmmm. i doubt it. although the fanboys over at RED think so. sooo much sucking up its hard to read past a few pages.
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I don't own a RED, though I have been thinking about it. I have a pair of AF100s as my low-cost prototyping platform. Now I'm ready to step up. Do I step up to SONY? CANON? or RED? It depends on short and long-term value, and I'm a big believer that RED has a fundamental competitive advantage in terms of their modular strategy. The big news is that the mortgage on their modular strategy has been paid off. They are now free to innovate without the huge overhang. That opens up a far wider range of options than are available to pricing wizards in Tokyo trying to figure out how to sell the least amount of camera for the most amount of money. Jim wants to sell the most amount of camera for the least amount of money, because he cares about filmmaking. And he wants to do so profitably because that makes the business sustainable.

so, RED's a very fine camera & gear company and now the walls are starting to close in and will get progressively faster. you lower the price ONLY because you have to. nothing else.
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I'll bet you $1 than six months from now, there will be a substantial opinion--beyond the so-called fan-boys--that my interpretation of RED's actions is more accurate than yours.

love the competition.
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Bring it on ;-)

p.s.
canon just lowered the price on the 5DmkIII from $3500 to $2950. plus they are adding in april (422 HDMI out). i dont recall canon ever lowering the price of a new camera that fast...ever. pressure. BMC kind of pressure.
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Indeed. Canon is playing a different game, and I believe you are absolutely correct that the market is adjusting their spreadsheet predictions in real-time. Canon guessed wrong, and they are "paying" via a mechanism of incremental price reduction. RED is going to zap the price once, they're going to do it big, and either they will reach a new economic efficiency level and lower it again, or they will find that they did redefine the market and force the monoliths into a very difficult match-up with the masters of modular.
 
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So they'll be able to make the Scarlett 3K for $3K now, right?

LOL. Red officially lost me after that whole bait and switch fiasco.
 
I already posted this in the Sony thread, but I think Barry's wrong.

Sony already has their Epic competitor in the F65. I think they're announcing a C500 competitor. If Red didn't respond to the C500, why do we think they're worried about its Sony counterpart? C500 (and possibly Sony's answer to it) are priced close to Epic, but specced closer to Scarlet. Yawn.
 
david_p said:
p.s.
canon just lowered the price on the 5DmkIII from $3500 to $2950. plus they are adding in april (422 HDMI out). i dont recall canon ever lowering the price of a new camera that fast...ever. pressure. BMC kind of pressure.
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That had nothing to do with BMC. They don't have the volume to pressure Canon.

It's because they guessed wrong and priced their 35mm pro body $500 higher than arch-rival Nikon's. Add to that the fact that it's a half-assed evolutionary refresh that should've been called the 5D2.5 while the D800 is a revolution. Add to that the fact that Nikon's sales #'s aren't as far behind Canon's as they used to be.
 
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