5d or GH3

sparky33 said:
Sorry you don't have any fast/wide lens choices for m/43rds. Only the slow 7-14 F/4 (aka DOF like F/8 on FF and still only 14-28mm). Even the Nokton 17mm is still an effective 35mm.
I wouldn't trot this video out as a great example of the GH3's superiority. Certainly @ 1:50 and 2:10 those shots look better on the Canon. Also, no people in any of these shots. Wonder why? Don't like unrealistic plastic-y faces?
This looks like very sharp camcorder footage from the GH3. If you like the deep DOF look, then this is for you. Sharpness isn't everything especially in video...:)
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What are you shooting that you want shallow DOF on an ultrawide? or are you shooting unlit night exteriors? I'm really curious as I've never found the 7-14 F4 to be too slow for the applications I use an ultrawide for. What lens are you currently using to get a fast 14mm FF lens with minimal distortion?

There are several wides that are fast for M4/3. You are right it is harder to achieve but they are out there. The Olympus 14-35 f2, Olympus 12mm F2, Noktor 12mm 1.6, 14mm 2.5.

Why do Canon guys always talk about plastic skintones. I hear it from them about the Sony FS cams also yet I keep seeing professionals turning out amazing results. For the level of camera the 5D3/GH3 are (they are DSLRs not real video cameras) most people wouldn't even notice. Especially for someone like the OP who is looking for family use.

Also the FF extreme shallow DOF trend is so overused. I much prefer S35 to FF for this reason. You can get shallow DOF with both cameras it just takes a little more work for the GH3 just as it takes a little more work to get a healthy DOF for good focus on a FF. It comes down to knowing your gear and having the right bits to choose the look you want. Your right. Sharpness isn't everything just as soft shallow DOF isn't everything. Right tool for the job. You can't beat the 5DIII for portrait shots for this reason. I don't like it for wide shots as I want detail. I shoot on both cameras occasionally and like both. They are both good and bad at certain things. The OP needs to prioritize what it best for him.
 
I was seriously considering purchasing a 6D, but decided against it because the moire. I ended up putting down the extra money and purchasing another mark 3
 
RatLabProductions said:
The real strength of the M4/3 system is size
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From my perspective, I think the real strength of the M4/3 format is DOF.

Most of the time, when I am shooting corporate or Indie film work I end up closing down to an aperture of f/2.8 - 4.0 to obtain the DOF that I am looking for.

This was one of the main reasons why I sold my Voightlander 25mm f/0.95 lens, because despite it's amazing super speed I would still end up closing down to f/2.8 - 4.0 to get the look I wanted, where your subject is clearly in focus and the background somewhat blurred. Shooting at wider f-stops created this ultra-shallow "myopic" look that I try to avoid if possible.

If I was shooting with a Full Frame sensor camera like the Canon 5D Mk3 I would have to stop down to f/5.6 - 8.0 to get the same DOF, and this would mean raising my ISO from 800 to 3200, or using 4 times as much light to shoot with.

Being able to get a great DOF look at f/2.8 is a big bonus when shooting with the Micro 4/3 format.
 
J.F.R. said:
*Full Frame is not the standard for movie lenses, if anything S35 and 16mm are

* More lenses? You have no idea what you are talking about. Almost any lens can mount on the MFT mount.
Fast wide lenses? How about this at 1.4

http://www.adorama.com/SLR1216MFT.html

or this at f/2
http://www.adorama.com/IOM12M.html


Finally and I will end this here, this was shot on a GH2 (with the Voigtlander 25mm f/0.95 lens) by some great Dp's I know






* A camera is only a tool
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Still, those are the equivalent of 24mm on full frame. It's F/1.6 not 1.4, and that's still the DOF of around F/3.2 on FF. I never said FF was the "standard" for filming, just that I like my lenses to not have a crop factor. Also, all these "adapted" lenses probably aren't going to autofocus very quickly if at all when I want to shoot stills. If all you want to do is video the GH2/3 are fine machines, but I shoot about 50/50 on each. I think your "lying to yourself" comment was a bit of a stretch, no? Considering many people on that Vimeo link even said they prefer the final look of the Canon. Sharpness/detail/resolution? Yep, the Gh3 wins. But again, you can get pretty close with the 5d3.
 
RatLabProductions said:
What are you shooting that you want shallow DOF on an ultrawide? or are you shooting unlit night exteriors? I'm really curious as I've never found the 7-14 F4 to be too slow for the applications I use an ultrawide for. What lens are you currently using to get a fast 14mm FF lens with minimal distortion?

There are several wides that are fast for M4/3. You are right it is harder to achieve but they are out there. The Olympus 14-35 f2, Olympus 12mm F2, Noktor 12mm 1.6, 14mm 2.5.

Why do Canon guys always talk about plastic skintones. I hear it from them about the Sony FS cams also yet I keep seeing professionals turning out amazing results. For the level of camera the 5D3/GH3 are (they are DSLRs not real video cameras) most people wouldn't even notice. Especially for someone like the OP who is looking for family use.

Also the FF extreme shallow DOF trend is so overused. I much prefer S35 to FF for this reason. You can get shallow DOF with both cameras it just takes a little more work for the GH3 just as it takes a little more work to get a healthy DOF for good focus on a FF. It comes down to knowing your gear and having the right bits to choose the look you want. Your right. Sharpness isn't everything just as soft shallow DOF isn't everything. Right tool for the job. You can't beat the 5DIII for portrait shots for this reason. I don't like it for wide shots as I want detail. I shoot on both cameras occasionally and like both. They are both good and bad at certain things. The OP needs to prioritize what it best for him.
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I used to own the Olympus 14-35 F/2 lens and an AF-100. I loved that combo, but there was an aperture problem on the GH2/AF100 where if you zoomed in the iris would flicker; it drove me crazy. Almost like the lens would temporarily go to F/2.2 for a second around 15mm. I guess I like being able to shoot in very low light (bands) and on a nice wide fast lens I can set it at near infinity focus and get great detail. But you're right - it's a real challenge keeping the subject in focus on a FF with a fast lens and also getting enough DOF for the wide shots. Sometimes even F/11 isn't enough DOF for me. I'm sure S35 is the answer, but then I don't know of any cameras that shoot great stills with that sized sensor. Again, there is no perfect answer, but the 5d3 is the best overall compromise for my needs.
 
sparky33 said:
I used to own the Olympus 14-35 F/2 lens and an AF-100. I loved that combo, but there was an aperture problem on the GH2/AF100 where if you zoomed in the iris would flicker; it drove me crazy. Almost like the lens would temporarily go to F/2.2 for a second around 15mm. I guess I like being able to shoot in very low light (bands) and on a nice wide fast lens I can set it at near infinity focus and get great detail. But you're right - it's a real challenge keeping the subject in focus on a FF with a fast lens and also getting enough DOF for the wide shots. Sometimes even F/11 isn't enough DOF for me. I'm sure S35 is the answer, but then I don't know of any cameras that shoot great stills with that sized sensor. Again, there is no perfect answer, but the 5d3 is the best overall compromise for my needs.
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Yes I have noticed the Iris flicker also. I think it some electronic compensation and the reason why you don't see many if any other F2 zooms out there. I use all my zooms as a variable prime so it doesn't effect my work much but you are right.

There really is no wrong answer here. Both are great cameras and have strengths in different areas. That is why I suggested if I wasn't taking photos I'd pony up the money for a C100 and be done with it. Luckily I get to use C300 at work so the GH3 is my home play camera (and comes out when I need 1080p 60) and to steal shots as a tourist. :)
 
sparky33 said:
Still, those are the equivalent of 24mm on full frame. It's F/1.6 not 1.4, and that's still the DOF of around F/3.2 on FF. I never said FF was the "standard" for filming, just that I like my lenses to not have a crop factor. Also, all these "adapted" lenses probably aren't going to autofocus very quickly if at all when I want to shoot stills. If all you want to do is video the GH2/3 are fine machines, but I shoot about 50/50 on each. I think your "lying to yourself" comment was a bit of a stretch, no? Considering many people on that Vimeo link even said they prefer the final look of the Canon. Sharpness/detail/resolution? Yep, the Gh3 wins. But again, you can get pretty close with the 5d3.
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Slr Magic is T 1.6 which is around F/ 1.4..........

Also you can buy a 5D Mark II and a GH3 for less than the price of a Mark III.



Personally 24mm on a Full Frame is wide enough for me, others might need more than that's why different tools exist. My main point was that it is False to believe that you cannot produce beautiful images with the Panasonic GH3.
1080 60fps is beautiful. Mark 3 wins in low light and high iso, but at a higher cost. If doing productions with lighting I say the GH3 is my preferred camera as the extra resolution is king, while still being able to achieve shallow dof and nice extreme wides with great detail.
 
RatLabProductions said:
Yes I have noticed the Iris flicker also. I think it some electronic compensation and the reason why you don't see many if any other F2 zooms out there. I use all my zooms as a variable prime so it doesn't effect my work much but you are right.

There really is no wrong answer here. Both are great cameras and have strengths in different areas. That is why I suggested if I wasn't taking photos I'd pony up the money for a C100 and be done with it. Luckily I get to use C300 at work so the GH3 is my home play camera (and comes out when I need 1080p 60) and to steal shots as a tourist. :)
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You know I think it really was just a firmware issue with the lens or the GH2/AF 100 camera bodies. I say this because I put the 14-35 Oly on my wife's GF-2 camera and recorded some video - I was able to zoom in and out at all apertures and didn't get a flicker. Who knows. But if I go back to micro 4/3rds I'll pick up another copy and use it like you do as a variable prime. That lens is pretty unbelievable and might be one of the sharpest lenses I've ever used.
 
J.F.R. said:
1080 60fps is beautiful.
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Is this as fake as the 1080 60p on the Sony-nex5n? It says 1080p, it kinda looks like 1080p but in reality it resolves less than 1080 25p. The 720 60p on the 5dmarkIII is surprisingly clean. Way cleaner than the 1080p 60p on the Nex-5n which is an aliasing mess.
 
JasonMillard81 said:
RatLab... Thanks. It may be a pain but may be better than spending another 800 on a body
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I would shell out the $800 just for not having to play operation with my camera every time I want to switch from video to stills. Not to mention the better body and features. Well worth it if a full frame camera is on your want list.

maarek said:
Is this as fake as the 1080 60p on the Sony-nex5n? It says 1080p, it kinda looks like 1080p but in reality it resolves less than 1080 25p. The 720 60p on the 5dmarkIII is surprisingly clean. Way cleaner than the 1080p 60p on the Nex-5n which is an aliasing mess.
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No its real 1080p 60 @ 50mb/s and it looks great. If the nex is fake 60p cause it resolves less would that make the 5D fake 1080? it sure as hell doesn't come close to resolving 1080 lines.
 
RatLabProductions said:
No its real 1080p 60 @ 50mb/s and it looks great. If the nex is fake 60p...
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Or maybe you haven't pixel peeped enough? The nex isn't "fake" but it does start skipping lines way more when in 1080 60p. Have you pointed the GH3 towards a line chart and measured a difference in 1080 60p and 24p?
 
This is just silly fan boy talk now - there is no comparison between 5d mk3 720 50p and gh3 1080 50 - I have seen the 2 together and there is a big difference
 
I shot this video with the 5D3 and in 720p50. It's not as resolved as the GH3 for sure but I find it to be more pleasing to the eye.

 
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